DoubleTake: The Hill

**SPEAKER_1** (0:00)
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**Les Sillers** (0:21)
Welcome to Double Take, I'm Les Sillers.
I believe in miracles, in theory.
I affirm, in the abstract, that there is a spiritual realm beyond our physical senses. And I accept, in principle, that angels and demons exist. But there is a difference between knowing that something is true on an intellectual level and knowing it from experience. That's a good thing. God designed us to live in this fallen world as spiritual and physical beings. For now, we are bound to the material universe, to things we can see and touch. That's how we experience reality the vast majority of the time.
On the other hand, Jesus commends those who have not seen and yet have believed in him, and the Apostle Paul reminds us to walk by faith and not by sight. That is, we are to live in the material world knowing that God exists and knowing that there is so much that we can't know or experience with our senses. But one day, we will. Today on Double Take, World's Mary Jackson has a story about a man named Joe Infranco whose understanding of reality gets a sudden shock. It involves a young man named Cody whose perception of the material world is…uncertain. And his ability to communicate is severely limited. But Joe believes that these limitations have opened Cody and many others like him up to something special, allowed at least some of them access to the spiritual realm in a way that the rest of us cannot. And that from all over the world, they meet and talk to Jesus at a place known only as The Hill. Is this for real? We don't know. But we hope that this episode will remind us all of a few things. That the spiritual realm exists. That it's real even if we can't see or touch it now. And that we need scripture to sort through what is and isn't true.
Here's Mary.

**Mary Jackson** (2:31)
It's already heating up at 8 a.m. on a Sunday morning in Scottsdale, Arizona. Joe Infranco is pacing the sprawling campus of Highlands Church.

**Joe Infranco** (2:40)
I'm instinctively going to the wrong place.

**Mary Jackson** (2:42)
He's a pastor of adult education.

**Matt Measel** (2:45)
How are you?

**Mary Jackson** (2:49)
Every few seconds Joe stops and greets someone warmly. He's Italian with white hair and a New York accent. Before moving to Scottsdale, Joe spent 25 years as a trial attorney in New York, arguing religious liberty cases. For 18 more years, he was vice president and senior counsel for the conservative legal group Alliance Defending Freedom. Some of his cases went all the way to the US Supreme Court. When Joe retired from legal work in 2020, he moved from elder to pastor at Highlands. That's when an unlikely group of congregants transformed his life trajectory and his beliefs about the spiritual world.
A tall, wrought iron gate surrounds the entrance to Highlands Special Needs Ministry Room. On a given Sunday, nearly 100 adults and children participate. When we popped in, Steve Richards, the adult education teacher, was just getting started with that day's Bible lesson.
For years, Joe knew many of the participants in the Special Needs Ministry by name. He'd give them fist bumps on Sundays. But he says he made a common mistake, talking down to them, thinking they understood very little. That all changed a few years ago with Cody Measel.
That's Cody. He's humming. It's a little hard to hear Cody clearly on this recording. Here he is in a different interview.
And back at the church, this is Cody's mom, Glory. Good morning. Cody is 24 and stands 6 foot 5, 255 pounds, with short brown hair and a trimmed beard. Today, he and Glory are greeting people in the church lobby.

**SPEAKER_6** (4:55)
Hi, Cody.

**Mary Jackson** (4:57)
Cody has severe autism. Although he can talk a little, usually with the hum, he's considered non-speaking.
But about three years ago, Cody's parents learned about a method called spelling to communicate. A trained aid holds up a laminate or plastic alphabet board. The non-speaker touches the letters to spell out words. This is Cody.
The hope is that the non-speaker progresses to the point where he can spell independently.
The method goes by other names. Assisted spelling, rapid prompting method, Spellers method, facilitated communication. It may not sound controversial, but it is. I'll get to that later. His parents, Matt and Glory, were elated when Cody could finally express his thoughts. When they saw that he has a complex internal life. Now Matt regrets playing Elma videos over and over for Cody. He thought his son liked them because while they played the video, Cody repeatedly called out Elmo.