DoubleTake: The edge of accountability - Part II

**SPEAKER_1** (0:00)
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**Les Sillers** (0:22)
From World Radio, this is Double Take. I'm Les Sillers.

**SPEAKER_3** (0:25)
Hello?

**Jim Jordan** (0:27)
Hi.

**SPEAKER_1** (0:29)
I'm looking for Vanessa Sivage.

**Vanessa Sivage** (0:31)
Okay.

**Jim Jordan** (0:32)
What are you?

**SPEAKER_1** (0:33)
I'm a next time an FBI agent.

**Les Sillers** (0:35)
Last week, we introduced you to Vanessa Sivage. Part of her job at Texas Children's Hospital in Houston involved facilitating transgender transition treatments for minors.

**Vanessa Sivage** (0:46)
It's a huge weight on my conscience, but how do you fight back? It's literally in my job description.

**Les Sillers** (0:52)
In May of 2023, the governor of Texas was threatening criminal investigations into gender clinics. In response, the hospital had said that it had paused at transition treatments for minors, but Vanessa knew it hadn't.
And then she read an article quoting an anonymous surgeon who said the hospital was lying about its gender clinic.

**Vanessa Sivage** (1:11)
It just lit me up.

**Les Sillers** (1:12)
She called the journalist, told him her story. The article came out with Vanessa and the surgeon as anonymous sources. The next month, Texas outlawed transgender treatments for minors. Vanessa didn't imagine she and the surgeon were solely responsible for that. But she'd done her part. She'd spoken up. She figured she could go back to work and everything would be fine. Two months later, in July of 2023, the FBI knocked on her door.
Her husband Blake opened up to a couple of burly guys in jeans. They flashed their badges. This audio is from the door camera.
Was the government coming for her? How'd they find her? She thought she was anonymous.

**SPEAKER_3** (1:59)
Are we interrupting dinner?

**Kathleen Dooley** (2:00)
I'm really sorry.

**Les Sillers** (2:01)
That's alright.

**Kathleen Dooley** (2:01)
What's going on?

**Les Sillers** (2:03)
Today on Double Take, the second half of Vanessa's story. It's not just her story. It's about people who decide to stop living by a lie and live according to the truth.
And whether this society will hold accountable those who have done terrible things in the name of a profoundly destructive view of humanity, supposedly with good intentions.

**Vanessa Sivage** (2:31)
We had some friends over for dinner, and we were all in the kitchen, and there's a knock on the door.

**Les Sillers** (2:37)
Vanessa joined Blake at the entryway. They live in a West Houston suburb.
They let the FBI agents into the entryway, but no farther.

**SPEAKER_1** (2:45)
Let me start at the beginning. So I'm sure you're aware of some of the things that have been going on at your work lately.

**Vanessa Sivage** (2:52)
With regards to... I had this foreboding thought that I knew exactly what they were talking about, but I did not let them know that I knew what they were talking about.

**Lynn Chadwick** (3:04)
Can we sit down for a minute?

**Kurt Maselli** (3:05)
Let me do my song and dance.

**Les Sillers** (3:07)
The conversation took about 10 minutes. The agent said they wanted help exposing someone.

**Vanessa Sivage** (3:12)
They called him a leaker, not a whistleblower, who had, in their words, had violated HIPAA confidentiality laws by releasing patient information to the public, and they were wondering if I knew anything about that.

**Les Sillers** (3:25)
Of course, they were talking about Rufo's articles. The whistleblower was Dr. Aitin Haim. We introduced him to you last week. Although Vanessa didn't know Haim's identity then, she didn't believe he had violated privacy laws. The articles contained nothing that would identify the patients.
Vanessa didn't know that FBI agents had already visited Haim's house a month earlier. They knew or strongly suspected he was the first whistleblower and wanted to find evidence against him.
It looks now like they were trying to confirm the other anonymous source. They were trying to find her.

**Vanessa Sivage** (3:58)
And they also said that we're incredibly aware of what you believe. We know of your beliefs against transgender ideology.

**Les Sillers** (4:05)
She believes they were talking about the article criticizing gender transition treatments she had written for the Washington Stand the year before, the one with her name on it.

**Vanessa Sivage** (4:13)
And if you don't collaborate with us, if you don't help us, then we can't protect you.

**Les Sillers** (4:18)
They told her her livelihood was at risk, even her safety.
They didn't say who, exactly, was threatening her safety. They gave her their cards, invited her to call if she wanted to have an in-depth conversation.