Dialogue 3: Mystical Consciousness, The Path of Consistency

SPEAKER_1 (0:00)

You're listening to a podcast by the Center for Action and Contemplation. To learn more, visit cac.org.

James Finley (0:08)

Greetings, I'm Jim Finley.

Kirsten Oates (0:11)

And I'm Kirsten Oates.

James Finley (0:13)

Welcome to Turning to the Mystics.

Kirsten Oates (0:22)

Welcome, everyone, to this Season 4 Dialogue, where I'm here with Jim. Hi, Jim. To talk about Guigo II's book, The Ladder of Monks, and your talk, your third talk on the ladder.

And Jim, in this session, you focused on the fourth rung of the ladder. And my first question about the fourth rung, is there anything we actually do at that rung, or is what happens at that rung all done by God?

James Finley (0:54)

I would say this, it's subtle.

That earlier session, I said, there is a contemplative dimension to each of the rungs. So for example, in the Lexio, as we take in the beauty of the word heard, we're drawn to contemplate that beauty, for example. And so the act of choosing to contemplate it is an act on our part, it's participatory. Same with meditation. We pause the prayer. What distinguishes contemplation for Guigo, which he means by infused contemplation, is that it's purely an act of God. That is, because what happens in the longing is that your finite longings for this infinite oneness being finite, we can't do it.

And therefore God, the boundary crossing is God crosses over and God infinitely gives the infinity of God to us in our powerlessness to reach it. And that's the power of it. And then what we do is we experience it. You know, we're caught up in it, or we're amazed by it, or we're kind of in unexplainable oneness with God's unexplainable oneness with us. Like that. So, we're talking about it as an event. And different ways to discern that event is happening to us. Because sometimes it's extremely subtle.

But what that leads to then is when that moment passes, the path, the light that shines out from that event illumines the path. And that's what we're exploring. Then lastly, what is this path of ever more habitual groundedness in the oneness, fleetingly realized? And that's path talk, I think.

Kirsten Oates (2:52)

So in terms of Guigo's method, there's only activity on our side, on the first three rungs.

James Finley (3:01)

Yes, there's only our activity, but the activity is always a response to God's activity. But the activity of God on the first three rungs is mediated or incarnate in and as our faith, in and as our consolation, in and as our insight, in and so on. So there's mediations of God, and we're actively experiencing that and actively engaging in it, like we're choosing to engage in it and commit our life to it.

We're in the essence of the contemplative, which is really a foretaste of heaven. See, it's really God acting in us and the infinity of God as God in an unexplainable oneness. And then when it dissipates, we're left with a longing to abide in that.

And that's where he picks up with the path. Well, what's that? If there is the path of the ladder that led up to the oneness, and then there is the taste of oneness, then what is the path that's illumined by the moment of oneness realized? See, how do we... What's that mean to be someone who lives like that?

Kirsten Oates (4:14)

Yes. And you said it's the case that contemplatio, that you called it catching fire, where God unites with us, can happen at any of the rungs.

James Finley (4:26)

In other words, the fire happens at any of the rungs at the level at which it's experienced at that rung. So, for example, in the Lexio, it can catch fire, but it catches fire as being intimately moved by the beauty of God personally speaking that to us.

God personally communicating to us in our discursive, in our prayerful dialogue with God. It catches fire in that sense. But with contemplation, it catches fire with the fire of God, that is an infinite fire.

That takes us into itself, like glory. It's a foretaste of glory. It's just like God in all directions. And who we are in God. And then when it passes, then we're left with, you know, like, wow. Holy cow. And so, and then we know having tasted it, know that we know it's real.

Kirsten Oates (5:22)

Yeah.

James Finley (5:23)

We know it's real. And left in our heart, the trace of a longing to abide in it, it was very careful to leave, because having tasted it, we know the poverty or the incompleteness of that which is outside that all-pervasive one is intimately realized, and that's the path.