Dialogue 2: A Loving Exchange

SPEAKER_1 (0:00)

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James Finley (0:08)

Greetings, I'm Jim Finley.

Kirsten Oates (0:11)

And I'm Kirsten Oates.

James Finley (0:12)

Welcome to Turning to the Mystics.

Kirsten Oates (0:23)

Welcome, everyone, to season eight of Turning to the Mystics, where we're turning to the German mystic, Mechthild of Magdeburg.

And I'm here with Jim, and we're going to dialogue about his second session, his second talk from Mechthild. Welcome, Jim.

James Finley (0:41)

Yes, yes, welcome.

Kirsten Oates (0:44)

Firstly, I loved the talk. I'm really enjoying this season so far.

James Finley (0:49)

Yeah, me too.

Kirsten Oates (0:52)

But just like last time, I thought it might be good to read through the whole piece at once that you reflected on in your talk.

And so, and we can play the parts like we did last time. I'll play Mechthild and you can be God.

James Finley (1:08)

Yes.

Kirsten Oates (1:09)

And so just so everyone can find it, we're in Mechthild of Magdeburg's book, The Flowing Light of the Godhead. And we're in book three, page 107 And the section's called, How the Soul Praises God and God the Soul for Seven Things of Balsam and Waiting.

Oh sweet Jesus, most handsome image, unconcealed to my exiled soul in distress and in love. In love I praise you through yourself, in distress and in love, in union with all creatures. I yearn to do this above all things.

Lord, you are the sun for all eyes. You are the delight of all ears. You are the voice of all words.

You are the force behind all piety. You are the teaching of all wisdom. You are the life of all that lives. You are the ordering of all that is. Then God praised the loving soul in fine words. He took great delight in doing so.

James Finley (2:23)

You are the light to my eyes. You are the liar to my ears. You are a voice for my words.

You are a projection of my piety. You are an honor to my piety. You are a life living in me. You are a praise in my being.

Kirsten Oates (2:42)

Lord, you are constantly lovesick for me. That you have clearly shown personally.

You have written me into your book of the Godhead. You have painted me in your humanity. You have buried me in your side, in your hands and feet. Ah, allow me, dear one, to pour balsam upon you.

James Finley (3:04)

O one dear to my heart, where shall you find the balm?

Kirsten Oates (3:09)

O Lord, I was going to tear the heart of my soul in two and intended to put you in it.

James Finley (3:15)

You could never give me a more soothing balsam than to let me unceasingly lie weightlessly in your soul.

Kirsten Oates (3:23)

Lord, if you were to take me home with you, I would be your physician forever.

James Finley (3:27)

Yes, I want that.

Still, my solicitude bids you wait. My love bids you labor. My patience bids you keep silent. My concern bids you suffer poverty. My dishonor bids you bear up. My sufficiency bids you refrain from complaint.

My victory bids you pursue to the end all virtues. My goal bids you endure many things. For this you shall have glory when I remove your heavy burden.

Kirsten Oates (4:04)

Wow, beautiful.

James Finley (4:07)

Yeah, it is beautiful.

Kirsten Oates (4:09)

I just had some questions about the beginning of the piece. She starts off, like all the mystics you've been sharing with us Jim, with this worldview of this exile that we're in. But these mystics, they always start with us being in this state of oneness, but we're exiled from it in our experience.

It's so different from other versions of Christianity, so it's good to reiterate it and get our head around it.

James Finley (4:41)

And really this is also the tradition, although we don't hear it, so this is an Aquinas also in Bonaventure and so on, is that at the deepest, deepest possible level, the abyss-like depths of God is by the generosity of God given to us, as the abyss-like depths of ourself and our nothingness without God. And that generosity of God, that self-donating generosity, which is the person that we are, is our God-given identity. It's invincible, it's sovereign. But our human nature that is given to us, not just reason, but our human nature is given to us as a nature, as one that's capable of recognizing that, which is religious experience.

And then in recognizing it, freely assenting to it, like saying, yes, because love is never imposed, it's always offered. So there is the sovereignty of the person that we are. It says in Scripture, let us create the human person in our image and likeness. So the image is the person that we are. The likeness is the nature that realizes it. And so the nature is wounded through the fall. So Jesus calls it blindness, and Buddhism is called ignorance.