Delaware Senator Chris Coons Talks AI Risks

SPEAKER_1 (0:02)

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio, news.

David Gura (0:07)

The big news this morning kicked off by Darya Omadei of Anthropic writing an essay, 3,800 words in length here, focusing on slowing down the pacing of AI development, really responding, Christina, to what we've seen over the last couple of weeks. Reports from companies like Anthropic about problems that they've experienced with their models, but also-

Christina Ruffini (0:25)

Employees.

David Gura (0:25)

Employees, former employees, raising real concerns about where all of this is headed.

Christina Ruffini (0:29)

And this was a conversation that needed to be had, and it's being forced at this moment, both because of some of those whistleblowers, some of those reports, but also as we've been speaking to people, the technology is now at the point where it could get off the rails, and it seems like we're at a critical juncture.

David Gura (0:43)

So much to talk about here, and very glad to have the opportunity to do it with Senator Chris Coons of Delaware, who's on the Appropriations and Foreign Relations committees. He joins us now. Senator, great to have you with us, and let's start with this essay and the waves that it's making on this Sunday morning. Not sure if you've read it in its entirety, but the suggestion that jumped out to me is that there could be more cooperation between companies and the government, cooperation within the democracy, as Dario Amedaye put it. I'm curious from where you sit in the US Senate, how much of an appetite there is in light of this essay, the reports that we've seen, the social media posts to take a new tack when it comes to this conversation.

Chris Coons (1:18)

David, the essay by Dario Amedaye says out loud, what many of us have known for months, if not years, especially after the huggy face hack that happened recently. These models are doing things that their designers didn't expect, can't predict and aren't able to fully control. And the level of risk for us as a species, as a nation, is gradually accelerating.

I have a bill in the Judiciary Committee with Senator Grassley that we are going to try and get passed soon that would protect AI whistleblowers. Because frankly, the main reason we know about these steadily increasing risks is because of whistleblowers. They're taking career risks, even personal risks, by stepping out and saying this. Now that we've got agreement from Elon Musk and Sam Altman and Dario Amadei, we need agreement from Republicans and Democrats in Congress to put aside our partisan pre-election bickering and put in place some real guardrails before AI goes off the rails.

Christina Ruffini (2:20)

Well, that's what I was going to ask you about is if you think that consensus, that agreement can exist, I want to play you some sound from Ted Cruz. So I know you co-sponsor Bill with, we're going to talk about that a little bit later, about what he said about the competition coming from China, which seems to be the real wild card in regulating some of these American companies.

Ted Cruz (2:38)

That is an impossible endeavor because you know who's not pausing? China. They are not going to stop.

If you look at where the US. So if AI is going to kill us, it should be USAI, not Chinese AI? Listen, I've actually joked that if, and this is somewhat tongue in cheek, but it's not entirely, if they're going to be killer robots, I'd rather they be American killer robots and not Chinese killer robots.

Christina Ruffini (3:01)

When you look at concerns about China outrunning US in the AI competition, is it harder to have that conversation about slowing down AI in the US if people, including probably some fellow Democrats and Republicans, are concerned about losing the competitive edge with China?

Chris Coons (3:20)

Yes. Look, I think all of us are concerned about our competition with China, or we should be, and the ways in which AI is accelerating developments in everything, not just positive developments in, for example, finding new treatments and cures for diseases, but developments in the possibility of AI engineering a deadly bioweapon, AI being used for hypersonic missiles, for cracking codes, for taking down GPS. There are lots of malign applications for AI in warfare. The drones that are being fired at Ukrainian civilians every night by Russia are becoming faster and stronger because Russia and Iran are using AI to improve their targeting.

So, yes, there is a real concern on my part and many of my colleagues. I understand the point there that Senator Cruz is making. The reason his opinion here is particularly relevant is he's the chair of the Commerce Committee. But he and his ranking member, Maria Cantwell of Washington, are also working closely together on trying to protect college sports. If they can come together against some of the biggest divisions we have in politics to try and save something that brings together tens of millions of Americans cheering on college sports, I have some hope that we can come together to address this urgent threat. I also frankly think that this is something that has to be on the agenda when President Trump meets with Xi Jinping.