Clancy Trial: Prosecution's Own Psychiatrist Admits Key Claim Isn't in His Notes

**Tony Brueski** (0:00)
This is live courtroom coverage of the trial of Lindsay Clancy from the Hidden Killers podcast in True Crime Today. Now, back to the courtroom.

**Dr. Avram Mack** (0:16)
Hi, counsel.

**Kevin Reddington** (0:16)
Thank you, Judge. So, your understanding of the procedure is that a notice has to be given to the court that a person like Lindsay is raising the issue of criminal responsibility, correct?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (0:34)
I imagine that's the case, but I don't know the procedure here in that regard. Okay.

**Kevin Reddington** (0:38)
You don't know the procedure?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (0:40)
The procedure for making notice?

**Kevin Reddington** (0:42)
Right.

**Dr. Avram Mack** (0:42)
No, I do not.

**Kevin Reddington** (0:44)
If I tell you, sir, that the notice is filed in December of 2024, when was it that you had the reach out?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (0:54)
The first communication about the case was in, as I said a few minutes ago, in late 2024

**Kevin Reddington** (1:00)
And do you recall the circumstances of that communication? Did they call you a letter or what?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (1:10)
No, I was contacted through a retention firm called Park Dietz & Associates. Dietz?

**Kevin Reddington** (1:19)
He's a psychiatrist, isn't he?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (1:21)
It sounds like you know him.

**Kevin Reddington** (1:22)
I do know him. And actually, Park Dietz is a rather famous psychiatrist, is he not?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (1:31)
Yes.

**Kevin Reddington** (1:32)
He's testified in many cases, correct?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (1:35)
Yes, but... No, overruled.
I said Park Dietz & Associates. I didn't say Park Dietz himself.

**Kevin Reddington** (1:40)
Okay. Well, you know Park Dietz, I imagine, right?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (1:42)
I do.

**Kevin Reddington** (1:43)
Yes. And you know that he's a guy that testified in a case and cited a law and order episode that didn't exist at the time he gave his estate?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (1:51)
The state.

**Kevin Reddington** (1:53)
So is he still active?
Objection. The state. Is he a psychiatrist now?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (2:00)
Yes, he's a psychiatrist.

**Kevin Reddington** (2:01)
And on your letterhead, it says, Park Dietz, D-I-E-T-Z & Associates, Forensic Experts, right?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (2:12)
I can't see what you're looking at, but that's what the letterhead basically says. I'm sorry for Matt, right? I am.

**Kevin Reddington** (2:18)
Okay. And this is your curriculum vitae, right?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (2:23)
Yes.

**Kevin Reddington** (2:23)
And in big letters up above, it says Park Dietz & Associates, right?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (2:28)
Yes.

**Kevin Reddington** (2:31)
Now, how does that work? You get a call from this retention group, Park Dietz, and then you get assigned a case?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (2:43)
When an attorney or a district attorney's office contacts them, they might think that it might be a case that I might want to be retained on.

**Kevin Reddington** (2:54)
Okay. Do they, to your knowledge, try to get someone that's familiar with that particular topic, or just anybody that has a random psychiatry degree?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (3:07)
Well, there are only certain people that they think of or consider, people that Dr. Dietz has thought of in terms of having a robust career. You have a robust career?
I've been active as a teacher and as a clinician over about 22 years, I've been a full professor at Penn & Jefferson & Georgetown.

**Kevin Reddington** (3:31)
So that's in your curriculum vitae, correct?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (3:35)
The three professor level appointments?

**Kevin Reddington** (3:37)
All of your stuff, the things you wrote, things that you're interested in, your fellowships, professorships, all that, right?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (3:46)
Yes.

**Kevin Reddington** (3:46)
Okay. And that's introduced into evidence by the DA, right?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (3:50)
Yes.

**Kevin Reddington** (3:51)
So the jury is going to have it to look at, right?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (3:53)
Okay. I didn't know that.

**Kevin Reddington** (3:54)
Let's just take a look at it now. Is it your understanding that when you are, and I mean you individually, not Park Dietz & Associates, requested to look at and investigate into the lack of criminal responsibility of a individual charged with a crime, that you're going to try to be independent?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (4:20)
Being independent is the expectation.

**Kevin Reddington** (4:22)
So you say yes, you try to be independent?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (4:24)
Yes, I do.

**Kevin Reddington** (4:24)
Okay. Is it appropriate for you to evaluate an individual with another Park Dietz & Associates guy?

**Dr. Avram Mack** (4:37)
Are you referring to Dr. Halbron?

**Kevin Reddington** (4:39)
I am referring to Dr. Halbron. He's another one of the DA's witnesses in this case, right?