Cheat on Everything: Cluely's Vision for Always-On AI Assistance

**Erik Torenberg** (0:00)
Hello, and welcome back to The Cognitive Revolution. Today, my guest is Roy Lee, founder and CEO of Cluely, the AI startup that recently announced a $15 million investment from Andreessen Horowitz, after repeatedly going viral both within and beyond the tech community with their provocative invitation to cheat on everything. Now, it might surprise even some regular listeners to learn that despite all the concern I've expressed about AI-related existential risks on this feed, that I'm actually usually a fan, both of edgy marketing and more generally of people who dare to challenge what are arguably outdated social norms. And yet, it wasn't the viral videos or the fundraise that inspired me to have this conversation, but rather a surprisingly earnest response to why Combinator President Gary Tan, after he tweeted that he was muting the term Cluely, in which Roy wrote, I have big dreams for this company, Gary. I know you might be turned off by the messaging and think that I'm some stupid kid who's doing something immature and unethical, but the end goal of this company is, I believe, a giant positive for humanity. That goal, as you'll hear, is to help humanity achieve a utopian world, in which humans are free to do whatever it is they intrinsically want to do, rather than what economic necessity demands. I love that vision, and I applaud the ambition. And yet, I do understand why so many people are uncomfortable with such an aggressive approach to AI adoption. So I tried to channel their concerns throughout this conversation. We begin by covering Cluely's product, a real-time AI assistant that feeds you relevant information and suggestions during meetings, sales calls, and yes, interviews. All via an undetectable screen overlay that's strikingly similar to Apple's new Liquid Glass and clearly anticipates an always-on augmented reality form factor in the future. Beyond that, we discuss Roy's experience getting kicked out of Columbia for posting a video of how he cheated on an Amazon interview. His thoughts on why his cheating-centric message is resonating so powerfully with young people today. His belief that copyright and privacy norms will dissolve in the face of efficiency gains. His philosophy of AI maximalism and personal code of conduct with respect to AI use. His thoughts on the over-employment phenomenon, which is obviously super relevant in light of this week's Soham Gate story. His advice to people who are trying to evaluate talent today. And finally, his thoughts on how Cluely can compete with tech giants in the long term. Overall, I found Roy's answers refreshingly bold but still quite thoughtful. At a minimum, regardless of whether you're inclined to cheerlead or criticize his approach, you have to recognize that he's thinking much more seriously and concretely than most about what life will look like in a post-AGI world. Before we dive in, just for the sake of transparency, I did want to note that A16Z did not have any role in the creation of this episode. The conversation came together through a simple Twitter DM exchange before the investment was announced, and as always, I am solely responsible for the guests I invite and the questions I ask. In this case, nothing substantive was cut during the editing process. Now, I hope you enjoy this conversation about AI Maximalism and building technology that anticipates and might actually help create not just new social norms, but perhaps an entirely new social contract. With Roy Lee, Founder and CEO of Cluely.
Roy Lee, Founder and CEO of Cluely. Welcome to The Cognitive Revolution.

**Roy Lee** (3:29)
Thanks for having me, brother.

**Erik Torenberg** (3:30)
I'm excited for this conversation. You have made quite a bit of noise online in recent weeks. I think anybody who is paying attention to the AI space has certainly seen your face and your posts and your cinematic, sometimes provocative marketing come across their feed. So I think there's actually a lot to unpack here.
For starters, A16Z, which recently led a $15 million investment into the company and put out a blog post about why they were doing it, opened that blog post with the provocative question, what if breaking the rules was the unlock? But you've got the motto, cheat on everything. So for starters, what does it mean to cheat on everything? What does Cluely help me cheat on? Brahma speaking, what is Cluely?

**Roy Lee** (4:16)
Yeah. I mean, Cluely is the new way that humans will interact with AI. Instead of going to chargept.com, we envision a future where people use Cluely instead. How it functions is a desktop app that integrates very deeply with your computer. It has access to your system audio, your microphone, and shows up as essentially a pane of glass over all your other applications, and it feeds you relevant information in real time. During a meeting, Cluely will take real-time notes, and at any point, it will suggest questions that you might have. For example, what does cheat on everything mean? Cheat on everything means using Cluely to gain advantage in any situation by instantly accessing relevant information. This is all information that Cluely is feeding me directly. So maximizing productivity and performance with AI everywhere. This is all stuff that Cluely literally tells me whenever you mention terms, it will float up definitions of the terms all in real-time without you ever knowing that I'm using AI.