Caleb Flynn Spent Every Holiday With His Wife. His Mistress Spent Them Alone.

Tony Brueski (0:01)

This is HiddenKillers Live with Tony Brueski and Robin Dre.

Tony Brueski (0:08)

As we continue, as the affair progressed, the delusions deepened. Caleb refused to blow up his comfortable life, his kids, his reputation, his connection to his in-laws. Meanwhile, Alleigha's given him ultimatums and deadlines, but continually accepting his empty promises when he inevitably misses them. Let's discuss the absolute mental gymnastics required to stay in this holding pattern, the power of intermittent reinforcement and why walking away from a toxic relationship sometimes feels harder than actually staying. Shavaun Scott, psychotherapist and author, is with us along with Robin Drake, retired FBI Special Agent, Chief of the Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program and Master Class Instructor. Caleb clearly wanted to keep his wife, his kids, his image and his mistress.

What's the psychological profile of a guy who genuinely believes he's entitled to sustain the double life forever without any consequences, Shavaun?

Shavaun Scott (1:09)

Well, as we talk so often about Cluster B and narcissism and as the disclaimer, you can't diagnose anything, but you can talk about observable traits. And there are certainly a lot of observable traits here about entitlement, grandiosity, that he's entitled to the money from the business, the children, maintaining his role as their father, and also having this other situation going on, and that this was just going to be something he could pull off until, yes, the pressure heated up from her, from Alleigha, that she was not going to tolerate this, even though she did for a long time. And as you said, promises were made, and you get that intermittent reinforcement. And then the other piece of this which jumped out at me was that they talked about how much they loved each other. This was not love, this was obsession. And there's really this neurohormone piece behind obsession like that. And I think love is a terrible word for it. But we don't have enough words for these emotional states. So in the English language, so we say love for, I love my mother, I love peanut butter, I love chocolate cake, I love my dog, I love my job. And we're really talking about very different emotional experiences for all these things. And I think they had a craving for each other that was- Yeah, it was driven by dopamine, oxytocin and endogenous opioids, which we all have a bit of early on in a relationship because that's what causes people to bond with each other. And if we didn't have these neurohormonal changes, nobody would ever really bond and they wouldn't stay together as couples. But in more pathological people, this kind of thing can just take off and blow up. And it's really more like an addiction than what I would call love. And the drama, drama, drama that goes with this, you know, the, the, I can't be with you, but maybe someday, and this, this promise that keeps them seeking with the dopamine drive.

And then when they get together, it's all the oxytocin and we feel, you know, I can't live without you.

So that was really jumping out at me in the text between the two of them.

Robin Drake (3:33)

It's like they trauma bonded to each other.

I mean, because when you think of that, I love when we talk about that word love and what it means to all these different nutters that we cover and how it's really a moving definition depending on what nutter we're talking about. And we're talking about this with these two, I just keep thinking about the fact that they kept saying that word. But when was the last time, at least from the text we saw, again, we only had context from what we saw in the courtroom, but at some point, they really didn't enjoy being together. And that word enjoy, you know, when you actually love someone like your dog or your spouse or that context or your peanut butter, you really enjoy being with it. And they didn't really enjoy being with each other. At what point, I wonder, it shifted. Did you see that anywhere during the testimony, Shavaun, where you saw at what point in this relationship did that shift or did it shift as soon as it became sexual and moved beyond the fantasy that they both had about each other?

Shavaun Scott (4:33)

It probably shifted early on. I can't say I saw a specific time. But when a relationship is caught, this is where we go use that question. I'm confused here. I love when you do that. Because if you love somebody, it's all about altruism, wanting them to be happy.

You know, you are happy when you're with them. And it's not this sense of jealousy and torment and pain. And if you're in a relationship and you're calling it love, I love this person, but you're feeling the need to monitor them because you don't trust them, you think they're lying to you, you're suffering. You're suffering. And that is something we need to be curious about. What is that about and how is that love?