Caleb Flynn Heard WHAT Before Life Without Parole?!

SPEAKER_1 (0:00)

This is The Big Breakdown, a long look back at some of the biggest stories we're covering for you at the Hidden Killers Podcast and True Crime Today. This is Hidden Killers Live with Tony Brueski and Robin Drake.

Tony Brueski (0:17)

Let's talk about the jury, the people who actually had to sit in that courtroom looking at those horrific texts and decide Caleb Flynn's fate. It's easy for us to arm-share quarterback this case, you know, from our studios, but being locked in a deliberation room with a mountain of digital evidence, star witness mistress and a grieving family staring you down is a little bit of a different atmosphere. Let's get into the minds of those jurors and in fact, how they sifted through the lies, the defense who spin and the sheer volume of evidence to finally get in front of them, that helped them hand down that guilty verdict. Juries are human and it's hard to visibly cringe, or it's hard to not cringe, when the other woman takes the stand to testify against her lover. Bob, how do you think the jury navigated their likely absolute disgust for Alleigha Botner, while still taking her testimony as having weight, as having truth to it? I mean, it's kind of two different things, like we're Icky, we don't trust you very good, but everything you're saying is what's going to put him away because you're not quite as Icky as he is, but you're still kind of on the Icky scale. Thoughts?

Bob, your mic's off.

Bob Mata (1:35)

Sorry, I have to set it off.

I mean, she's not the evidence, she wasn't the evidence, he was the narrator. You know what I mean? All that came off of Caleb's phone.

Tony Brueski (1:44)

Sure, yeah.

Bob Mata (1:46)

They didn't have to trust her at all. They can think that she was a piece of shit right along with him, but it didn't absolve him of anything.

He's the one throwing it out there. The story is just so implausible that no one was ever buying it. Now, the real question is, were they back in that jury deliberation room asking, why the hell wasn't she charged as well? I've ever heard of a co-conspirator. I mean, that shit would be it. I don't think that that was ever an issue. As we know, it was a pretty fast verdict. They basically got back there, straw pulled it and said, yep, he's going down.

Robin Drake (2:21)

Actually, that's a question that I have for you, Bob, because when they came out that fast with the verdict, believe it or not, the first thing that entered my mind is, Bob's going to be pissed that they didn't do the work. So were you pissed, Bob? Because with the amount of time they spent back there, the first thing they did was we all agree he's guilty, right? All right, let's start filling out paperwork. I think that was the deliberation right there.

Bob Mata (2:43)

On that one, I actually wasn't because it wasn't a really complicated case.

Robin Drake (2:47)

Right.

Bob Mata (2:48)

You know what I'm saying? Like the work was having to sit in that courtroom for days and days listening to those text messages. Like beyond that, what else was there? You know what I mean? Like they didn't have GSR on them. They didn't really have any of the physical evidence that you would want. They basically sold a narrative. It's one of those narrative cases that I talk about where there's a little bit of a lack of physical evidence in terms of being able to really pin it on him because they didn't find the gun. They didn't test him for GSR. The stories bonk.

Robin Drake (3:22)

That was what they leaned in to. You know me and my stats. I looked this one up as best as I could. There's not one example in the history of our criminal law system that's ever been recorded that there was a burglary where they came in, they knew where the gun was, they picked up the gun, they bypassed everyone in the house, they went within feet of the victim they're targeting as an executioner style, as she's asleep, shot in the back of the head and walked out of the house without ever taking anything, without any physical evidence. It's never ever ever happened in the history of our criminal justice system.

Tony Brueski (3:56)

So there's that.

Robin Drake (3:58)

Just that.

Tony Brueski (4:00)

So there's that. This has never happened in history before. But there is no gun and there is no GSR. And there wasn't as thorough of an investigation as I think probably a lot of people would have liked. I think the lack of investigation probably will convict him so quick. There was less to consider. There was less things that could have gone on and kind of merged their way into reasonable doubt territory. Even if truly they weren't reasonable doubt, it was less confusing aspects for the jury to look at. But when it comes to an appeal, which I'm sure he's going to make an attempt at because he's still standing up in court saying, I did not murder my wife.