Caleb Flynn Heard His Daughters Say WHAT at Sentencing?!

SPEAKER_1 (0:00)

This is The Big Breakdown, a long look back at some of the biggest stories we're covering for you at the Hidden Killers Podcast and True Crime Today. This is Hidden Killers Live with Tony Brueski and Robin Dreeke.

Tony Brueski (0:17)

Let's keep talking Caleb Flynn, shall we? Let's talk about Caleb himself to figure out to what was actually going on in his massive forehead, leading up to the murder.

It's one thing to have a toxic affair and complain about your spouse, but it's entirely different, terrifying leap to actually plan and execute the murder of your wife. Just take it out of a marriage. Really need to break down the psychology of the guy who can play the normal husband at home while secretly texting his mistress about how to get away with killing his wife. A lot of people have messy affairs and they vent about their spouse, but Caleb took it to a dark fantasy level that goes far beyond what most do. When we look at the behavior and those texts in the months leading up to the murder, what was the psychological tipping point that made him finally decide to cross that line? That's, I think, the question a lot of us have to discuss. Bob Motta, defense attorney from Defense Tyreys, and Robin Dreeke, retired FBI special agency for the Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program. Bob, I'm going to go to you. What do you think it was for him in this relationship? Was there a moment where he said, I'm going to do it? And if there is, what was it?

Bob Motta (1:29)

I don't think so.

I don't think it's a point. I think it was a squeeze. Because if you look at the text messages, they're going back to early 2025 So this was, we know it was an 18 month relationship in terms of when it started in earnest with the flirtatious text. So the real question for me is, he is outkicked his coverage in terms of-

SPEAKER_4 (2:01)

It's a good analogy.

Bob Motta (2:03)

Yeah. He's a 38-year-old balding guy, failed American Idol dude who had a dream.

SPEAKER_4 (2:11)

Yeah.

Bob Motta (2:12)

I had a dream. I was going to be a professional singer.

Those dreams were dashed. He's left to being a singer in the church there, which I'm sure was somewhat fulfilling for him, but not nearly what he had cooking up in his mind.

SPEAKER_4 (2:27)

I'm not a star.

Bob Motta (2:28)

I'm not a star.

Any needs this young? What was she? 22 at the time? 20 at the time.

Tony Brueski (2:36)

20 initially, so he's 24 now.

Bob Motta (2:39)

Yeah, and I think that he gets the sense that he's gonna be able to hook her.

And I think that she sees him as an opportunity to change the arc of her life.

And I think that they were both seeking very different things out of that relationship. And I have come to the conclusion in my own mind that she was very much running that relationship. Much like I felt with Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell. Chad just didn't have the wherewithal and mental acuity to be able to outsmart her. And she had a goal in that relationship as well, what she was going to use him to get to. And in this situation, because I kept saying to Alleigh, I'm like, are they having the real talks? Because if he divorces, the money, the job goes away.

He's going to have to pay child support. There's a lot of problems that are going to arise in terms of whatever she's thinking her life could be with him that are no longer going to be a part of his life. I mean, in fact, divorces are like, and it kind of goes back to our first segment a bit in terms of the reality of what was going on. Because out of 107,000 texts, we probably heard 1,000, right? So there's a shit ton more context there. And I'm assuming that had the defense been able to find anything that would have been more of a smoking gun, in terms of Ashley, that they would have brought it out. So what they have, I think, is what they have. Now, I was never clear whether or not you could get into the WhatsApp and the GroupMe stuff. I don't know if that was all included. Some of it was, but she had lost her phone and her computer. So I don't know. But trying to figure out his psychology is so hard because I just think that the guy was like, wow, I got a hot chick. And it's like he's sitting around saying shit to her that he doesn't necessarily believe. He hates his wife. I don't really think he hated her. I think that he was, you know, Allison rejects the small head, I'd guess theory of defense. But I'm like, this dude, this dude was thinking with his dick all day. Like he could not see fit to think about anything other than the next time he was hooking up with her. And, you know, it was to the detriment of the great detriment of everyone around him, especially his kids. Like for his kids never to kind of break through that fog that was going on in his mind in terms of the choices he was making and the ramifications that would result from whatever he did, whether it was divorcing Ashley and destroying the family or what happened. Either way, for him to be so incredibly thoughtless to his children is probably the most repugnant part of the whole case for me.