Britain Isn't Ready For A Real War - Col. Hamish de Bretton-Gordon OBE

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**Konstantin Kisin** (1:02)
What is the state of Britain's national defense?

**Hamish de Bretton-Gordon** (1:04)
When I joined the army, there are 150,000 people and 1,000 tanks. At the moment, it's about 70,000 and 148 tanks.
What he has done is stirred up European militaries and made people realize that actually we cannot rely on the US. We must produce our own military capabilities so that when the Russian president looks west, he sees a credible defense. We are learning from the lessons from Ukraine. 80% lethality from drones, 25% from conventional. We now know that certainly for the foreseeable future, the next decade or so, it's going to be an autonomous type battle. And unless we can operate in that, we're going to struggle.

**Konstantin Kisin** (1:49)
Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, welcome to TRIGGERnometry.

**Hamish de Bretton-Gordon** (1:52)
Well, thank you very much indeed for having me. It's been a great ambition to come and do your pod at some stage.

**Konstantin Kisin** (1:58)
Pleasure to have you. We want to talk about the British Army and also the evolution of warfare, the war in Ukraine, perhaps we'll touch on Syria, which is an era of great expertise. Before we do all that, tell us a little bit about your story, your journey, your background.

**Hamish de Bretton-Gordon** (2:11)
Well, I come from a real military family. I think I'm the fourth generation who've been through the Academy at Lanturst, a fairly ordinary academic life at school. I didn't really get many A-levels. I did agriculture at the University of Reading and just scraped through and then went into the Army, which are a regular officer for 23 years. I was lucky in inverted commas. I hit all the big matches as it were. So I was a young tank commander in the first Gulf War, and then did Bosnia War, Kosovo War, did a few UN trips in Cyprus, then was involved in the Second Gulf War as well, and did a number of tours in Iraq when I was commanding my regiment, a number of tours in Afghanistan as well. When I left the Army after 23 years, I then got involved in Syria for 10 years in and out of there, and to see Assad gone and a lot of happy faces in Syria is great. After I left the Army, I got into a whole host of things, journalism as well and writing books.
I've had a very fortunate life, I think, from a military perspective and quite a lucky one.
I've survived a few scrapes. The irony having somebody who did so badly at school, I'm also now a Don at Magdalen College, Cambridge, which when they asked me if I would do it, I said, hang on, you got the wrong man here. I've got one A-level, hardly any academics and a third-class degree in agriculture. They said, Hamish, you got a lot of very clever people here at Cambridge, we just need a few with a bit of experience. That's where you come in. So that's my story in a nutshell.

**Konstantin Kisin** (4:01)
Well, it's great to have you. One of the things that we've been covering and talking about a lot, and it's been a big discussion point in our countries, I'm sure you're well aware, which is the state of Britain's defense, the armed forces, the lack of funding, and other issues that this country has been dealing with for a long time.
What is the state of Britain's national defense?

**Hamish de Bretton-Gordon** (4:23)
Well, I think it's a very easy one to decry and put down. I think like a lot of NATO countries, European NATO countries, our government so overspent the peace dividend after the end of the Cold War, that actually a lot of capability was denuded. A lot of people thought at the end of the Cold War, that was it.