Brian and Judson hookup with Bryan Safi and talk people pleasing, finding love on the apps, gay divorce, needing reassurance as an adult, healing family wounds, and both Jason Alexanders

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (0:11)
Hi, friends, welcome to Dads And Daddies, a podcast about the lives and times of adult gay men in the here and now. I'm Brian Rubin-Sowers, the dad.

**Judson Morrow** (0:18)
And I am Judson Morrow, the daddy.

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (0:22)
Judson.

**Judson Morrow** (0:23)
Yeah?

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (0:24)
Tell me all about Folsom East.

**Judson Morrow** (0:29)
Okay, so I wanna compare it to the event that I had gone to the day before.

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (0:36)
Okay.

**Judson Morrow** (0:37)
Which was Mother Disco at $3 Bill.

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (0:40)
Okay.

**Judson Morrow** (0:40)
Which our listeners know is where we went to Unspeakable Joy and had the best time.

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (0:45)
Yes.

**Judson Morrow** (0:46)
Unspeakable Joy, 13 out of 10

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (0:48)
Yes.

**Judson Morrow** (0:49)
Mother Disco, 6 out of 10

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (0:51)
Okay.

**Judson Morrow** (0:52)
Why?
The music was okay, the weather was amazing.
The vibe, it was a lot of guys doing drugs and only talking to each other. I'm just like, this is so weird. I think it has a lot to do with ketamine, to be honest with you. That is not a very outgoing substance. You get very inside your head. The reason that I mention all of this is because Folsom East was the exact opposite. It was super friendly, super fun. Everyone's talking to everybody. I also give Folsom East a 13 out of 10

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (1:35)
Tell our listeners who do not know what Folsom East is.

**Judson Morrow** (1:39)
Folsom East is the New York City iteration of the Folsom Street Fair which originated in San Francisco.

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (1:48)
On Folsom Street.

**Judson Morrow** (1:49)
On Folsom Street, which takes place at the end of September.
It is just a kink festival. So everyone is showing up in their gear, in their ropes, in their harnesses, in their puppy play stuff.

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (2:04)
When this episode airs, do I have your permission to post on our stories, pictures of you in what you wore to Folsom East?

**Judson Morrow** (2:11)
Of course. It's like a mix between a singlet and a leotard.

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (2:19)
Have you seen Borat?

**Judson Morrow** (2:21)
Yes. Yes, exactly that.
With a peekaboo back.

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (2:26)
Yes.

**Judson Morrow** (2:26)
So I had an amazing-

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (2:27)
In a nice what? Lavender, would you say?

**Judson Morrow** (2:29)
In a very sumptuous lavender. Yes.
It was a hit. The boys know this.

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (2:35)
I'm sure it was a hit.

**Judson Morrow** (2:36)
So I had an amazing time at Folsom East. It is much, much, much smaller, the original Folsom Festival, which if you talk to folks who have been in San Francisco for a while, they're like, oh, it's so corporate now. It's kind of like the conversations we have around pride.
I haven't been to Folsom in San Francisco since I've been sober.
So I'm really excited to go back as a person in recovery because I had so much fun sober at Folsom East.

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (3:06)
And you're going this year. You're going to Folsom in San Francisco.

**Judson Morrow** (3:08)
We're going to be in California in September. So again, it's just like, we get asked all the time, like, how do you meet people?

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (3:18)
You put on a lavender silhouette with a peek-a-boo back.

**Judson Morrow** (3:22)
I just think, and this is like a very broad stroke, and I'm not going to go into like every single kink that was represented at the festival. But my experience within the kink community, as someone who isn't super kinky necessarily outside of daddy-son play is, it's so warm, it's so welcoming, it's so friendly, it's all stripes.
I just met and talked to so many really lovely people doing all the things. The reason that it struck me as so exciting is because the day before, I had gone to a dance party that a month ago was super social and ended up not being that social.

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (4:04)
Now, to be fair, we've attended Mother Disco in the past and it's been a fabulous time.

**Judson Morrow** (4:11)
Correct.

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (4:12)
All of these parties can have their days for whatever reason.

**Judson Morrow** (4:15)
Correct.
We say this all the time. It's important to go to the things more than once. This particular iteration just didn't hit for me.

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (4:24)
Right.

**Judson Morrow** (4:25)
That's okay.

**Brian Rubin-Sowers** (4:26)
Oh, yes. Well, I'm so happy. Now, where does Folsom East take place?

**Judson Morrow** (4:32)
I can't remember the exact street, either 26th or 27th between 11th and 12th.
They've pushed it all the way to the west side. Yeah, it's a block away from the 26th.