Bonus: The Life and Work of Teresa of Avila feat. Mirabai Starr

James Finley (0:01)

Greetings, I'm Jim Finley.

Kirsten Oates (0:04)

And I'm Kirsten Oates.

James Finley (0:05)

Welcome to Turning to the Mystics.

Kirsten Oates (0:15)

Welcome to season two of Turning to the Mystics. Today, we're doing something a little different. Jim and I are here with Mirabai Starr, and she's going to join us for a dialogue about Teresa of Avila.

Mirabai has translated the Interior Castle as well as Teresa of Avila, The Book of My Life. So she has a deep relationship and expertise around Teresa, and Jim and I are both excited about this discussion. Before we get started, let me tell you a little bit about Mirabai. Mirabai is an award-winning author of creative nonfiction and contemporary translations of sacred literature. She taught philosophy and world religions at the University of New Mexico Taos for 20 years, and now teaches and speaks internationally on contemplative practice and interspiritual dialogue. Her latest book, Wild Mercy, Living the Fierce and Tender Wisdom of the Women Mystics, was named one of the best books of 2019 by Spirituality and Practice.

Mirabai is on the 2020 Watkins List of the 100 Most Spiritually Influential Living People of the World. She lives with her extended family in the mountains of Northern New Mexico.

And Mirabai has been a wonderful friend to the Center for Action and Contemplation. She and Richard have a lovely friendship, and she has joined us for many conferences to lead practices and to speak. And she actually joins Jim in our online course on the Interior Castle. So welcome, Mirabai, welcome Jim. We're looking forward to our conversation today. Mirabai, before we get started, I thought it would be great if you could give us a little bit of background on yourself and how you came to be someone translating Christian mystics.

Mirabai Starr (2:09)

I grew up in a non-religious Jewish household. My parents were kind of social justice activists, but not interested in Judaism as a spiritual path, but more as a kind of model for activating in the world on behalf of people on the margins. So I grew up with that consciousness around Judaism. And it was only later, you know, my early 20s that I began to explore Judaism as a spiritual path.

But I also grew up with the Eastern traditions, Hinduism and Buddhism, and then eventually Sufism, the mystical branch of Islam.

Pretty much everything except Christianity. And then finally, when I was around 20, I was living in Spain, in Sevilla, studying Spanish literature. And I encountered San Juan de la Cruz, St. John of the Cross, and his poetry, his ecstatic love poetry to God. And it aligned very much with my Sufi practices and studies. So I really recognized his love language. And when I began teaching philosophy and religious studies at the University of New Mexico, I always used John of the Cross, but especially Dark Night of the Soul, which had been a deeply moving text for me personally. And my students just weren't connecting with it. So finally, a colleague of mine suggested that I try translating it. I was in my late 30s at that point.

And I did. So I began with the poem Noche Oscura del Alma, Canciones del Alma, Songs of the Soul, not Songs of the Soul, which was this love poem that just poured out of John of the Cross when he escaped from prison for his reform activities with Teresa of Avila. And then from there, the sisters, the nuns for whom he was confessor prevailed upon him to write a prose commentary, an explication of that poem as a guide for the spiritual journey. And he did, and so there's this exquisite prose commentary that we know of as Dark Night of the Soul. So my publisher actually said after that, look, nobody knows John of the Cross in the mainstream, maybe in the Catholic Church and scholars and so on, but Teresa of Avila, people are intrigued by, why don't you translate her next? And I was like, oy, I'm not interested in her.

She's just too flamboyant. John of the Cross is a true contemplative, like me, Teresa is just, it's all flash and fire. But I agreed to do it. And lo and behold, Teresa of Avila became my deepest spiritual companion. So I translated the Interior Castle. And at a time in my life when I deeply needed everything she had to say, and she became, yeah, really part of my team of allies and ancestors and advocates that I carry with me. And then I was given the opportunity to translate her life.

And so the Christian mystics, through this John of the Cross translation, they have all opened up to me. And through them, this relationship with Christ has opened. And that's the very distilled version of that journey. I hope I didn't take too long.