Bill Kristol: Trump Wants All-out Kleptocracy

**Tim Miller** (0:12)
Hello, and welcome to The Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. It is Monday, he is back, editor-at-large of The Bulwark, 4th of July content creator extraordinaire, Bill Kristol. You were working this weekend.

**Bill Kristol** (0:25)
A little bit, in between World Cup games, obviously, but it was too hot to go outside, and I was kind of avoiding watching Trump and his attempt to hijack the 250th, so it was World Cup and a little bit of work.

**Tim Miller** (0:36)
Yeah, we'll get to the World Cup at the end. I also miss Trump. You said you were trying to watch Trump, or trying to avoid Trump?

**Bill Kristol** (0:42)
Yes, trying and succeeding in avoiding Trump. Then I had to discuss it a bit with Sam Stein on Sunday, but luckily Sam had watched it, so I was able to just play off him.

**Tim Miller** (0:52)
Well, you're ahead of me because I just decided I'm going dark. I know this is my job, and I'm paid by you people and entrusted by you people to watch this thing. But it's midnight, so whatever, 11 o'clock on the 4th of July.
I took my daughter and a neighbor kid, I went up to the roof of a hospital parking garage, maybe against the rules, to watch all the fireworks around town. I came home, I was like, I'm not going to turn this on. Why would I do this to myself? The next morning, I woke up and I was like, I'm not going to re-watch it. Why would I do that to myself? So I don't know how it was.
There's much to have been said about it in the lead up and we did. It is sad and unfortunate that our 250th anniversary could not have been more of a unifying celebration. I do, to your point about the World Cup, I do think that it's been kind of just replaced by, you know, that there was a vacuum and it was filled mostly, we'll get to that at the end, mostly by the World Cup team. So that's all. Do you have any other deep thoughts for people who are desperate for observations about his speech?

**Bill Kristol** (2:00)
Just that I think Trump's attempt to hijack it basically failed. I think, you know, 98% of Americans were ignoring what was happening in Washington or, you know, enjoying July 4th in a pretty traditional way in their neighborhoods, in their backyards, and their local high schools, you know, watching fireworks or like you, semi-legally on the roofs of garages watching fireworks. Seriously, that's what people do on July 4th and they go to swimming pools and it's hot here. We went to our little neighborhood get together on July 4th. It's usually a little parade, little kids in their tricycles kind of thing.
It was too hot, actually, so they just assembled in one area where there was some shade and mixed and mingled and provided red, white and blue popsicles. But it was charming and it was nice. And I was there about 45 minutes, several Bulwark readers and viewers, I'm happy to say. No talk of Trump, actually, except for the implicitly, I'd say, and the praise for the Bulwark, but just chatting about what was people's lives and what was going on and how their kids were and so forth. So that reassured me that the huge bulk of America was able to tune out Trump, I think.

**Tim Miller** (3:00)
A Federalist, a small D Democratic, Fourth of July, us in our communities. That feels right. Well, the president is back this morning, up early, ringing the bell in the Oval Office. This all just feels so gauche and inappropriate. And it was the first joint opening of the NASDAQ and the Dow to announce the Trump accounts, just put his name on them.
In his remarks, he mentions Michael Dell, who contributed to those accounts, and he urged people to buy the Dell stock and said that Dell was going to be repaid for his donation. The Dell stock surged this morning after he said that. The last week, we heard right before the weekend that some investment accounts owned by Trump engaged in 300 previously undisclosed stock purchases, one day ahead of his surprise announcement that he would pause his Liberation Day tariffs.
There had been a 45-day deadline to report those transactions. He doesn't abide by deadlines. You replied to that story with just a brief tweet that said, impeach and convict, that stirred me. I want to talk about the merits of impeachment. But first, the degree of grotesquerie around this. It's hard to even wrap your arms around.

**Bill Kristol** (4:22)