Architect Norman Foster on Why the West Struggles to Build Big

SPEAKER_2 (0:02)

Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio, News.

Tracy Alloway (0:18)

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway.

Joe Weisenthal (0:22)

And I'm Joe Weisenthal.

Tracy Alloway (0:23)

Joe, you know I spend a lot of my time doing interior design.

Joe Weisenthal (0:27)

Yes.

Tracy Alloway (0:28)

I've bored you, I'm sure, with a lot of thoughts on this topic, but then it struck me recently that actually what I'm doing is not really interior design. It's actually just interior decorating, because I'm not really changing the structure of a particular house. I don't like doing that in part because I'm lazy and I hate construction mess, but also because it's a lot harder to change the particular design of a house than it is to just get new fabric for the windows or a new paint color. There are more real world constraints in building design. That's an interesting way to put it.

Joe Weisenthal (0:59)

I can confirm having looked over from time to time, you know, when we sit next to each other, I can confirm having looked at you, say like looking out wallpaper, and you have vintage wallpaper that you might be acquiring, but no, I have not heard of you sort of talking about, you know, knocking down big walls or whatever inside your home. Although I certainly, you know, in New York City, you know people who do that, and they hire an architect as part of, they'll buy two condos or something like that and can join them and hire an architect and so forth. That's a different level. It's a different level of constraints and obligations.

Tracy Alloway (1:29)

Well, this is the other thing I've been thinking, am I a product of my time? Because so much of the cultural emphasis nowadays seems to be on interior design and what the inside of a building looks like versus the exterior. And I think if I had been thinking about these things in the 90s or the 80s, I would be much more into architecture.

Joe Weisenthal (1:50)

It's a really interesting thought and I hadn't really thought of it that way, but that makes a lot of sense. And my uninformed gut is like, oh, does social media make it so that people are just much more obsessed with the interior design of a building, the specific aesthetic choices that are made. But of course, on the other hand, we work at Bloomberg, we have a big office in London.

Tracy Alloway (2:13)

Many beautiful buildings.

Joe Weisenthal (2:14)

Many beautiful buildings, lots of glass, a new London HQ, absolutely gorgeous building, et cetera. And so we do live surrounded in this world, that the world we live in is one that was built by architects or designed by architects.

Tracy Alloway (2:29)

Absolutely, and this was the other thing I was thinking about architecture in relation to economics is when it's done well, a beautiful building ends up being a public good, right? It can boost an entire neighborhood, it can revive a particular city, it can improve the flow of traffic, improve energy efficiency, do all these things.

But so many buildings are still designed by private developers, and I'm not sure they're always incentivized to do beautiful design in that way. How do you incentivize a private developer to do something that ends up being a public good?

Joe Weisenthal (3:03)

That's a fascinating question. I hadn't really thought of it framed in that way.

For example, again, the new JP Morgan building in New York I like it. I don't work there, but I think it's like a cool addition to Skyline. It blinks, et cetera. There's a lot of cool things. But how do you design, how do you incentivize a public good is a good way to frame it.

Tracy Alloway (3:20)

Well, since you mentioned the JP Morgan building, that is a big clue.

Joe Weisenthal (3:22)

Purposely dropping bread crumbs.

Tracy Alloway (3:24)

Yes, a huge clue. So we do in fact have the perfect guest for today's show. We are going to be speaking to a very famous architect, Lord Norman Foster. He is of course the founder of Foster and Partners. And we are here with him in Madrid.

Joe Weisenthal (3:39)

In his studio and his foundation.

Tracy Alloway (3:40)

Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Norman Foster (3:42)

Thank you.

Tracy Alloway (3:43)

So how much of architecture is about dealing with real world constraints? Because I always think there's not just physics and finance, but you're also dealing with things like zoning. And I guess in the UK, you're also dealing with listing requirements and things like that. How much does that constrain you?