Alastair Campbell vs. TRIGGERnometry: Grooming Gangs, Immigration and Iraq

**Konstantin Kisin** (0:00)
Right, I'm gonna level with you. I'm not a gamer, even though I look like one. I'm not gonna pretend I've been grinding through RPGs between recordings, or that I have strong opinions about which Final Fantasy was the best one. I think it's Japanese and I think there's a sword. That's genuinely everything I know. But our social media guy showed me this app and I genuinely thought, that's quite clever. It's called Snacksy. Basically, game publishers need new players and they're willing to pay to get them. Snacksy just passes that money on to you.
You play games you were probably going to play anyway, you own coins and you cash them out for real rewards. PayPal, Amazon, Netflix, gift cards. If you prefer gaming credit, you can redeem for PlayStation, Xbox, Steam and Nintendo or cash out your Inevo wallet. I've got no idea what that means. Actual money not just points that expire. It takes a few minutes to set up. You open the app, swipe through the game offers, pick something that looks decent, play it, earn, redeem. That's the whole thing. There's a sign-up bonus worth up to $10 if you use our link, which is in the description of this episode. That's S-N-A-K-Z-Y, Snaxing. Click the link in the description to get started. And when you sign up, use the code TRIGGERpod. That's T-R-I-G-G-E-R-P-O-D to claim your $10 bonus. And the app is mobile only, so click the link from your phone, not your laptop.

**SPEAKER_2** (1:27)
King of the Hill is coming in hot.

**Francis Foster** (1:29)
Bobby and Connie are official.

**SPEAKER_2** (1:32)
We were just warming each other up.

**SPEAKER_4** (1:34)
Shut up!

**SPEAKER_5** (1:34)
Oh, good God!

**SPEAKER_2** (1:35)
Hulu's hit animated series is back for a brand new season of big changes.

**SPEAKER_5** (1:39)
Our communication skills could be a little better.

**Alastair Campbell** (1:42)
Peggy, it's against golf etiquette.

**SPEAKER_4** (1:44)
What does golf etiquette say about jamming this club into your mouth?

**Konstantin Kisin** (1:47)
It's frowned upon.

**SPEAKER_2** (1:49)
The new season of the Hulu original King of the Hill premiering July 20th on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. The terms apply.

**Alastair Campbell** (2:01)
They call you woke if you sort of campaign for gay rights.

**Francis Foster** (2:05)
Not at all.

**Alastair Campbell** (2:06)
Yes, they do.

**Francis Foster** (2:07)
There's loads of gay people who use the phrase woke.

**Alastair Campbell** (2:09)
Okay, they may do.

**Francis Foster** (2:10)
Come back to the police.

**Alastair Campbell** (2:11)
You've got your definition.

**Francis Foster** (2:11)
Come back to the police.

**Alastair Campbell** (2:12)
I'll come back to the police, right.

**Francis Foster** (2:13)
The instructions police officers get, they're explicitly told not to treat people equally. Explicitly.

**Alastair Campbell** (2:19)
Honestly, this stuff is just, it's demented. It's absolutely demented.

**Francis Foster** (2:24)
That's the quotes from the police-

**Alastair Campbell** (2:25)
No, okay, and it may be. And it may be because you found one document where some guy is writing some guidance for the police. The idea...

**Francis Foster** (2:33)
College of Police and Guidance.

**Alastair Campbell** (2:35)
Wait a minute.

**Francis Foster** (2:35)
This is how police officers are trained. Have you looked into this?

**Alastair Campbell** (2:39)
Not as deeply as you.

**Francis Foster** (2:40)
I think you should.

**Alastair Campbell** (2:41)
Well, maybe I should.

**Francis Foster** (2:42)
There's a double standard is what I'm getting at. Okay.
See, what if I make a good point? You just go ahead. I haven't read the guidance.

**Alastair Campbell** (2:52)
What the weaponizers have done is...

**Francis Foster** (2:56)
Come on.

**Alastair Campbell** (2:56)
But this is what they do. They save you.

**Francis Foster** (2:57)
You search the real issue and you just go, this is a terrible problem. And the reason it's a terrible problem is it gives Nigel Farage an excuse to weaponize it. Alastair Campbell, long time coming. Welcome to TRIGGERnometry.

**Alastair Campbell** (3:10)
Nice to be here.

**Francis Foster** (3:11)
Great to have you.

**Alastair Campbell** (3:12)
Thank you.

**Konstantin Kisin** (3:13)
So Alastair, let's kick it off. You have always been fiercely critical of populism.
Why is that? Because we're living in the populist age now. What's the problem with it?

**Alastair Campbell** (3:26)
Well, it depends what you define populism as. I define populism as a form of politics that seeks to exploit rather than solve. That's my view of populism. It's not... I know that the traditional view of populism is, well, it's kind of the people against the elite, okay? I think that's a post-facto rationalization to make the populists feel better about the way they do politics. But at heart, populism means to me a form of politics that is not about solving problems, it's exploiting them, and it's not about meeting challenges together, it's about driving people apart.