Alastair and Michael Gove Disagree Agreeably on Brexit and Israel

Alastair Campbell (0:01)

We had some great questions for this episode with Michael Gove standing in for Rory. And one of my favorites was this one from Oscar. Have Michael Gove and Alastair Campbell ever agreed about anything? Well, we both think Tony Blair was an exceptional prime minister, and we both know that Boris Johnson was a charlatan. But we express these things in different ways.

There are two big issues that we really disagree about. One is Brexit, and the other is Israel-Gaza. We're going to be discussing those because we've got lots of questions on both. With Michael, unlike Rory, an actual football fan, we'll also get into Manchester City's troubles too.

So plenty of scope for agreeable disagreement. As we ask, will the UK get back into the EU? Will Manchester City get relegated? Will Michael Gove ever, ever criticise Israel?

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Alastair Campbell (0:53)

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Alastair Campbell (2:03)

Welcome to The Rest Is Politics Question Time with me, Alastair Campbell and me, Michael Gove. And Michael Gove is standing in for Rory Stewart. And we are going to be talking about the many, many questions we got on these subjects. Brexit, Middle East, Israel-Gaza and Israel-West Bank, Manchester City, and then we might lighten things up a bit towards the end. But let's just start with these questions on Brexit, a couple here.

Simoen, do you think there will be another EU referendum?

Time will tell. Tim from Birmingham. Hi Alastair and Michael, before the leadership challenge, Andy Burnham promised not to rerun the Brexit arguments. Now a few months into the job, he's saying we could go all the way and rejoin. Where does he go from here? If Labour goes into 2029, offering a choice between status quo, customs union, single market, or full membership, which would each of you back? First of all, yes or no, Michael, do you think we will have another Europe referendum at some point in our lifetime? Secondly, which of those options would you back if we did?

Michael Gove (3:06)

For the time being, I don't think there will be a referendum. What I think Andy Burnham will try to do is to forge a new relationship with the European Union on closer terms, and then seek a mandate, probably, not necessarily at the next election, but probably at a future election to take us back in on the basis of a general election result. So I don't think that there will be another referendum. If there were another referendum, I'd vote for the status quo.

Alastair Campbell (3:31)

That is interesting, because that is my ideal position, the one that you've just outlined, and I've written about it in The New World this week, and I've said that I don't think even Andy Burnham will be that bold. But I hope you're right. I hope you're right, because I think that will be the right thing for the country. What do you make of his statement in his speech in Liverpool, that Brexit has done more harm than good? It's very hard to dispute that, Michael.

Michael Gove (3:54)

It is, I think, challenging, but I will. The interesting thing is that he acknowledges that it had done some good.

So, normally...

Alastair Campbell (4:03)

So, which bit of the speech did he acknowledge it was more harm than good? It does not mean that good was done.

Michael Gove (4:10)

Well, I took from it, and you might say that this is an example of cockeyed optimism, that he was acknowledging that there was a balance. And one of the things I'd say about the Labour government is that it has actually, in its actions, recognized that there are good things from Brexit. So, taking VAT off gas and electricity bills, impossible within the European Union.