A Human Rights Activist Explains Why Bitcoin Is So Important to His Work

Joe Weisenthal (0:11)

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. I'm Joe Weisenthal.

Tracy Alloway (0:17)

And I'm Tracy Alloway.

Joe Weisenthal (0:19)

Tracy, I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but...

Tracy Alloway (0:22)

Uh-oh, here we go.

Joe Weisenthal (0:25)

No, I know. But I kind of feel like, of the two of us, you kind of are a little, have, trying to think how to phrase this in a polite way, you have a little bit more like, no, no, no, it's not that bad, but you have a little bit more sort of a crankish conspiracy theory-minded sympathies than me. A little bit.

Tracy Alloway (0:46)

Crankish conspiracy, no, no.

Joe Weisenthal (0:48)

A little bit.

Tracy Alloway (0:48)

But I am, no.

No, the problem is, I'm surrounded by conspiracy theorists, and I like to be fully informed, so I listen to what they have to say. That's it. I'm a depository for conspiracy theories.

Joe Weisenthal (1:04)

But like, you kind of like, are into gold and silver, and you kind of hate the Fed a little bit, and you kind of believe that there's bubbles everywhere. Just a little bit. I'm not saying like full on, but you're like, sort of like, you're like kind of curious, like you're open to it, right?

Tracy Alloway (1:19)

This is like scandalously libelous. I don't like gold or silver. I keep getting given it for my birthday, and I end up with it. I think the Fed's done a reasonably good job, although I certainly have some advice for them on how to proceed.

I do think the corporate bond market is overvalued, and there may be some trouble there in the future. There. Those are my opinions.

Joe Weisenthal (1:46)

So the only reason I brought this up is because even though I do feel like you're a little more like crank curious than I am, I actually think that on one topic, you're a little like more skeptical than I am within this whole like the crank role.

Tracy Alloway (2:03)

What's that?

Joe Weisenthal (2:03)

Digital currencies.

Tracy Alloway (2:06)

Yes, I would agree with that, yeah.

Joe Weisenthal (2:08)

Like I feel like you're pretty like deeply skeptical of them and you're like kind of the view that they're all scams. And I'm like pretty skeptical of them and think they're mostly scams, but I'm not like as entirely negative on them as conceptually as you are.

Wouldn't you say that's fair?

Tracy Alloway (2:27)

Well, so I have some problems with digital currencies, but as a concept, I think they're really, really intriguing. And what I like is when people basically get up and say the only reason for digital currencies to exist is because of regulatory arbitrage purposes.

Like if we can start from that basis and just be honest with ourselves, then I don't necessarily have a problem with them, but I still think they are going to face some massive, massive challenges.

Joe Weisenthal (2:55)

Okay, that's fair enough. Well, today I'm actually kind of hopeful that in our conversation today, which obviously at this point everyone's figured out is going to be about Bitcoin and perhaps other cryptocurrencies, that actually we might be able to arrive at a place where we see things from a similar perspective.

Tracy Alloway (3:14)

Okay, I'm willing to have my mind changed, so I'll be interested in this one.

Joe Weisenthal (3:19)

I think that's optimistic. So you mentioned that you kind of believe that maybe there's a niche for cryptocurrencies and some sort of regulatory arbitrage.

And I would argue that you could slightly accept that and broaden it a bit if you sort of think of cryptocurrencies as not just regulatory arbitrage per se, but in allowing people to engage in transactions that maybe big governments or big corporations, you wouldn't want them knowing about or maybe they wouldn't allow you to do. It's kind of of the same category.

Tracy Alloway (3:56)

Such as illegal transactions.

Joe Weisenthal (3:59)

Well, some of them might be, but even illegality can be either moral or immoral, depending on the country and the law and context.

Tracy Alloway (4:07)

True, and this is something we did touch on with Jill Carlson a while back. Like the idea that what's deemed illegal in Venezuela might actually in other countries be deemed necessary for survival and people are using Bitcoin in order to survive. Yes.

Joe Weisenthal (4:23)

Right, so today I'm very excited because we're going to be talking to a guest that really ties these concepts together.

His background or at least his current position is not what you would expect from a sort of typical crypto guest or sort of Bitcoin believer. Our guest today is Alex Gladstein. He's the Chief Strategy Officer at the Human Rights Foundation.