842: Danny Meyer on the Pain of Eater Deathwatch; Playing Cat and Mouse with Sam Sifton

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Danny Meyer (1:07)

I had it wrong when I was afraid of laying people off, and here's why. The alternative was I kept people on staff for two years.

No one got a raise during that time. No one got a promotion. And in fact, I was doing them a disservice because they could have taken their gifts somewhere else.

Matt Rodbard (1:27)

This is TASTE. I'm your host, Matt Rodbard.

Danny Meyer built Union Square Hospitality Group on a promise. He'd never close a restaurant. Then he closed one and it changed how he thinks and writes about leadership. 20 years after the release of his influential book, Setting the Table, Meyer returns with a new memoir, What Could Possibly Go Right?, and joins me in the studio to discuss failure, scaling culture across 700 restaurants, walking back his progressive no tipping policy, and what it feels like to hand the reins of his company to somebody else. I hope you enjoy this episode.

Danny Meyer, welcome back to This Is TASTE. It's so great to see you.

Danny Meyer (2:14)

You too, Matt.

Matt Rodbard (2:16)

I love your book, What Could Possibly Go Right? Great title.

We're going to get into all of that. There's so many elements that I had always wondered about your career. I've been following it and writing about your restaurants and yourself for over 20 years. So thank you for doing it. Before we get into all of that, outside of your own restaurants, I always want to ask you, you know, where are you dining out? In New York, or possibly during travels?

Danny Meyer (2:41)

I've been doing a fair amount of traveling because I know that with the... Actually, the main reason I've been traveling so much this past year is that's when I wrote the book. The only time I'm alone is on airplane. And I'm not really proud to say that, but the last trip I took, I had just handed in my manuscript the final time and I didn't know what to do on the airplane. I actually watched a movie. I started listening to a book on Audible. Anyway, last night, I had a chance to go to a brand new restaurant, Graciela, and I really enjoyed it. I had been to the restaurant that inspired it in Buenos Aires called Don Julio, and it's really fun. It's an Argentinian steak restaurant with New York touches to it.

I was happy to see that one of our former chefs is in the kitchen.

Matt Rodbard (3:33)

Great.

Danny Meyer (3:34)

And just terrific, terrific experience. And I was going to say, I got a hat trick this summer, and I started off with drinks and snacks, wine and snacks at Stars, and then the next course at Penny, and then of course, dinner at Claude after that.

Matt Rodbard (3:53)

You did the hat trick.

Danny Meyer (3:54)

I don't know how many people do the hat trick, but it was a great night.

Matt Rodbard (3:57)

You're not the first, but it's rare territory. And what do you see in those guys, the operators, what do you admire about the way that they serve in these three different settings?

Danny Meyer (4:11)

I love how committed they are to hospitality. You won't be surprised to hear me say that.

Loved working with Chase when he was at Maialino several years ago. He always loved wine. I love the wine program at all three places. I love the food. And I also love the spirit of what we call sprezzatura, which is it doesn't seem like they're putting a ton of effort into it, and yet they are. And so the experience of dining there is you go like, this just seems so natural and there's no errors about it. There's no pretense. There's nothing contrived. It's not precious. It's just good.