20VC: Why OpenAI and Anthropic Won't Win the App Layer | Why Teams Will Get Bigger Not Smaller in a World of AI | Why AI Removes Incumbents Advantage of Bundling | China vs America: Who Wins the AI War with Arvind Jain, Co-Founder @ Glean

**Arvind Jain** (0:00)
90% or greater of use cases can now be fully handled by many, many different models, including open source models. I think for almost all other AI companies that are not doing frontier model training, they should see the model companies as a huge asset. So once you move towards consumption, there's no inherent bundling advantage. You have to do 10 times the work to get the same amount of revenue from your customers.

**Harry Stebbings** (0:24)
This is 20VC with me, Harry Stebbings. Now, I have to admit, I started fasting and the trouble with fasting is you can get a little bit hangry. Now, I did this show late in the afternoon and Arvind Jain, the incredible founder of Glean, is one of the technology luminaries of the last decade. He founded Rubrik before, which obviously IPO'ed very successfully and is a brilliant public company now. He's gone on to found Glean, an incredible business today that's raised money from Kleiner Perkins and many other great investors.
And I was, I would say, divisive in this show. I'm almost slightly nervous to listen back, because I really pushed him in a way that I probably don't push other guests. But it actually led to one of the most phenomenal discussions that we've had in recent times on the show, which makes me think I should probably be hangry a little bit more, but it was a great show. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Do you like happy Harry or hangry Harry more? But before we dive into the show today, most companies have tried AI, most aren't seeing results. Not because AI doesn't work, it's because AI hasn't reached the workflows yet. That's the gap Asana is built to close. Asana is the operating system for human agent teams, your easy button for AI productivity across every team. Ready-to-go AI teammates, pre-built for marketing, ops and IT, no prompt engineering, no setup, they show up where the work is happening, already onboarded, in your workflows, ready to deliver. With Asana, your whole company can work on the same plan towards the same goal, whether you're a team of 10 or a team of 10,000. Asana, where humans and agents work flow together. Try it at asana.com. That's asana.com. While Asana aligns the roadmap, MongoDB powers the build. MongoDB has always been the database developers love. Well, now is the data platform AI agents need. Agents need accurate context, fast. MongoDB stores, searches and reasons over your data in real-time. JSON-native database, vector search and voyage AI embeddings all in one place. One system instead of 10, no data pipelines to maintain. Oh, this sounds too good to be true. Build and scale from your first user to billions of vectors. Run on any cloud on-prem or your laptop even. That's why 75% of the Fortune 100 run their most critical apps on MongoDB, moving trillions of dollars every single day. And it's why AI-native companies like Eleven Labs run 40 million agents on MongoDB. So if you're building in AI, MongoDB for startups helps you move faster with Atlas and Voyage AI credits and dedicated support. Don't build agents that answer once and forget. Build agents that remember and learn from your real-time data. Go to mongodb.com/agents.
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**Arvind Jain** (4:21)
You have now arrived at your destination.

**Harry Stebbings** (4:24)
Arvind, I'm so excited for this. We have a mutual friend in Mamoon who says many, many wonderful things about you. And I think he's one of the greatest investors of our time. And so I'm really excited for this. So thank you for joining me.

**Arvind Jain** (4:36)
Thank you for having me.

**Harry Stebbings** (4:38)
Now, I think with entrepreneurs, you're either thrilled by winning and it's that chase to win, or you're terrified of losing and it's that fear of losing that inspires you. Which one are you?