20VC: Why Now is the Time for the Application Layer | Why OpenAI & Anthropic Won't Win the App Layer | Why Startups Should be TokenMaxxing | Why VCs Should Reduce Weighting on Price & Ownership in an Age of AI with Mike Mignano, USV

**Mike Mignano** (0:00)
We've got this infrastructure, and now it's time for the applications to be built. I think we have never handed over so much of ourselves to a technology before than we're about to do with agents. As a startup, you need every advantage you can get right now. If I were the CEO of a startup right now, I would actually still be pounding the table to maximize token spend. We like to bet on businesses that obliterate, that literally obliterate markets and existing business models. I think this era of building AI products is in many ways about being first and about moving really, really fast. I think traditional media in many respects is dead.

**Harry Stebbings** (0:39)
This is 20VC with me, Harry Stebbings, and today I'm thrilled to welcome a 10-year-long friendship to the show, Mike Mignano, who is the newest general partner at USV. He's also one of the early investors in Suno and Granola in his prior days before joining the USV partnership. He's a former founder, having sold his business, anchored to Spotify many years ago, and today we discuss the really hard questions, which is how much of the value do model layer companies accrue over the application layer? Is there any value in routing layer companies and routing to model providers? Then how do we fundamentally think about who wins, open versus closed, and what does that mean for venture investing today? That and so much more in this discussion with Mike. But before we dive into the show today, founders face a different set of challenges at every stage of growth. For Sid Shait, co-founder and CEO of D-Matrix, JP Morgan delivered the guidance and expertise to help navigate what came next. He credits JP Morgan's high touch approach with supporting D-Matrix as it grew and expanded internationally. Whether you're in the early days or expanding into new markets, JP Morgan helps startups navigate complexity with real confidence, offering personalized guidance and deep sector expertise. Find out how JP Morgan helps founders at jpmorgan.com/growwithoutlimits.
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**Mike Mignano** (4:01)
You have now arrived at your destination.

**Harry Stebbings** (4:04)
Mike, dude, I am so looking forward to this. We first did our show when you were co-founder of Anchor.

**Mike Mignano** (4:11)
Correct, 10 years ago.

**Harry Stebbings** (4:12)
10 years ago, I looked it up. I was underage and I remember Anchor was like the hottest thing in New York and in startups at the time. And I was legit 18, 19
And I was absolutely shitting myself before our show because like you were the...

**Mike Mignano** (4:28)
Really?

**Harry Stebbings** (4:29)
Yeah, you were the it boy of venture at the time.

**Mike Mignano** (4:31)
For a minute, like five minutes, maybe most.