20VC: Is Anthropic's Coding Business Worth $2 Trillion? | Should American Enterprises Work With Open-Source Chinese Models? | Why 80–90% of Neo-Labs Die in the Next 18 Months? with Eno Reyes, Co-Founder @ Factory

**Eno Reyes** (0:00)
I see a world where the smartest model is actually the cheapest. People are thinking about outcomes in AI, and they're looking at 20, 30, 50, and they're saying, that's ludicrous, that's crazy. That is underestimating by an order of magnitude how massive a transformation this is gonna be. The TAM of frontier models is, frankly, overweighted right now. Eight in 10 billion is the new one billion. Two of the largest companies that provide models today have explicitly said, we're going to go after every single one of these industries and businesses that we provide intelligence for. I think it could be 80 to 90% of Neolabs die in the next 18 months. Calling open source models Chinese models is a Psi-op by the frontier labs to basically trick people into thinking that they're scary and otherize them. In three years, 99% of workflows are going to be done on open models.

**Harry Stebbings** (0:51)
This is 20VC with me, Harry Stebbings. Now, I am fed up of speaking to visionary, insightful leaders who actually aren't building today in the trenches at the cutting edge of infrastructure and AI. Today, we have CTO and co-founder of Factory, Eno Reyes. He is one of the most articulate and insightful thinkers about the value stack of AI that I've interviewed. Factory is one of the leading companies that specialize in Autonomous Software Development. I co-invested in their round with Sequoia, and Eno is incredible in this show today. Get your pen and paper out. There's going to be a lot of notes taken in this discussion. But before we dive into the show today, what do Uber, Cursor and Harvey have in common? Well, they made the really wise decision to build on Fireworks. Fireworks is the specialized intelligence platform behind many of the world's leading AI products. Companies use Fireworks to deploy the latest open models, specialize them with their own data, and run them in production with the speed and reliability modern AI applications demand. But getting models into production is only the beginning. As AI usage scales, the best model for one request isn't always the best model for the next. Well, that's where Fireworks Nexus comes in. Nexus connects to the AI coding tools and harnesses your engineers already use, and intelligently routes each request to the best model for the job, helping you optimize for quality, latency and cost without changing how your engineers work. To see intelligent model routing in practice, visit fireworks.ai/20vc to create a free account and use the promo code 20VC50 to claim $50 in credits for 20VC50. While Fireworks AI powers product intelligence, Asana keeps the work moving. Most companies have tried AI, most aren't seeing results. Not because AI doesn't work, it's because AI hasn't reached the workflows yet. That's the gap Asana is built to close. Asana is the operating system for human-agent teams, your easy button for AI productivity across every team. Ready-to-go AI teammates, pre-built for marketing, ops and IT. No prompt engineering, no setup, they show up where the work is happening, already on-boarded, in your workflows, ready to deliver. With Asana, your whole company can work on the same plan towards the same goal, whether you're a team of 10 or a team of 10,000. Asana, where humans and agents workflow together. Try it at asana.com. That's asana.com. While Asana organizes the work, Framer scales the story. If your team wants a website that looks and feels handcrafted, but is still fast to ship, Framer is built for exactly that. Here's what I love. Framer is the pro-AI website builder for creators, teams and businesses that really care enough to get every detail right. The agents close the gap between AI-generated ideas and production-ready website work, because it all happens where the site actually lives. It lands on the canvas, it stays editable, and it can be published when the team is ready. Build custom code components, create and manage CMS content, optimize SEO settings, and ship everything all in one place. The agents bring speed and scale. You bring taste, judgment and control. It's an enterprise-level solution, premium hosting, enterprise-grade security, and 99.99% uptime SLAs, which is why the world's leading brands like Perplexity and Miro build in Framer. Learn how you can get more out of your site from a Framer specialist, or get started building for free today at framer.com/20vc for 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan. That's framer.com/20vc for 30% off. framer.com/20vc. Rules and restrictions may apply. You have now arrived at your destination.
Eno, dude, it is so good to have you in the studio. I obviously had my tan in the studio. I was chatting to Keith Reboy over the weekend about you. So thank you so much for joining me, dude.