20Sales: John McMahon on How to Hire, Train & Retain the Best Sales Reps | How Sales Changes in a World of AI | Sales Lessons from Snowflake and MongoDB | How to Create and Drive a Sales Process with Urgency

**Harry Stebbings** (0:00)
This is 20Sales with me, Harry Stebbings. Now, 20Sales is the monthly show where we sit down with the best sales leaders to unpack how they hire, train and retain the best sales teams. Joining me is a legend, John McMahon, widely regarded as one of the greatest enterprise software sales leaders of all time. He's the only person to have served as Chief Revenue Officer at five public software companies. Today, he sits on the board of companies such as Snowflake and MongoDB, and also mentors and influences a who's who of modern SaaS sales leaders. This was one of my favorites to do in a long time. He's just a sage of our business and has taught so many of the great sales leaders today. But before we dive into the show today, is your finance team a cost center, tied up in enforcing policies, bogged down by cumbersome processes and drowning in operational busy work? Well, what if you could unlock seamless, strategic finance that actually fuels your business growth? This is why leading global growth companies use Payhawk, the finance orchestration platform that unifies global spend management with conversational AI to deliver best user experience for everybody dealing with company spending. Finance teams using Payhawk report a major shift from operational to strategic work. New AI agents for each finance role handle the busy work, acting with the same governance as your finance team, like having a small team of expert assistants that work 24-7, but also providing an exceptional user experience to your employees. Payhawk is built for growth and enterprise businesses that operate globally. No six-month implementations, no consultant dependencies, just immediate finance transformation that scales with your business. Leading growth companies like Vinted, Wallbox and hundreds more across 32 countries use Payhawk to move finance forward, not just keep up. Ready to turn your finance processes into a competitive advantage, Payhawk is offering a staggering 30% discount to everybody switching from a qualifying expense management or company card provider who mentioned The TwentyVC Podcast. Visit payhawk.com/switch to learn more and make the intelligent switch today. And while Payhawk keeps your books on point, Miro turns that same clarity into teamwork that actually flows. You know what kills momentum?
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**John McMahon** (3:30)
You have now arrived at your destination.

**Harry Stebbings** (3:34)
John, I am so excited to have you on the show because all of the greatest shows that I have done with sales leaders, they were all your protégés to some extent and they all cited you explicitly in the shows as being the reason why they are the sales leaders they are.

**John McMahon** (3:51)
That's nice.

**Harry Stebbings** (3:52)
Which is amazing. So, thank you so much for joining me.

**John McMahon** (3:55)
You're welcome, Harry. Good to see you. Glad you got dressed up for me.

**Harry Stebbings** (3:58)
Thank you. I am glad that you appreciate my short shorts. If you also knew the temperature outside, it's like freezing in London. My question to you is, you have now been a sales leader for what, 30 years, 35 years?

**John McMahon** (4:11)
Well, I'm not a sales leader now, but I was for about 30 years, yeah.

**Harry Stebbings** (4:15)
So tell me, how has the art of sales changed?

**John McMahon** (4:19)
I don't think that the art of the sale has really changed much, because there's an art to it, and then there's a science to it. So the art hasn't really changed because you're dealing with people, and that can be dependent upon your style and whether or not you can have a rubber band effect to reach out to different types of people, because you're going to run into analytical people, you're going to run into drivers, you're going to run into expressives, you're going to run into amiable people. And it's your ability to deal with people that's the art part of it. I think what's probably changed a lot and has become a lot more formal is the discipline around the sales process. That I think has changed, become a lot more regimented. People have really figured out, you know, what is the sales process for my product and what's the right messaging? And then even on top of that, what's the right ideal customer profile that I should go after?