20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel

**Antoine Le Nel** (0:00)
If you're a good product manager, you don't need an A-B test. You should be able to know what is the right product. I think the less you believe in, the better it is. I have no belief in anything. I have no belief in anything. There's no CAC discussion at Revolut. We only talk about ROI, because if you talk about CAC, you'll always acquire the worst cohorts. I think the idea of localization is completely overrated. Growth is a bidding war. It's a bidding war. It's about whether you're able to bid above everyone else.

**Harry Stebbings** (0:28)
This is 20 Growth with me, Harry Stebbings. Now, 20 Growth is a monthy show where we sit down with the best growth leaders on the planet to reveal their tips, tactics and strategies. And today, we bring you one of the best growth leaders from one of the fastest growing companies, Antoine Le Nel, Chief Growth and Marketing Officer at Revolut, one of the fastest growing fintechs on the planet. Prior to Revolut, Antoine spent an incredible seven years at King, the makers of Candy Crush, overseeing the continuous expansion of the world's most famous mobile game where he was VP of Growth. But before we dive in today, when I spoke to Canva co-founder Cliff Obrecht on the podcast last year, he touched on how visual content is fast becoming the fuel that's driving the modern workplace. Your team needs to create an engaging visual pitch deck to sell in an idea. A product launch needs an inspiring video to excite investors and customers. Projects gather steam with visual whiteboards. That's where Canva can help. It's a game changer for visual communication at work. Canva turns your team into master visual communicators so they can get their point across with visual impact inside and outside your business, with no design experience needed. With Canva, any team member and any company, whether you're a startup or a global organization, can design compelling on-brand visual content quickly and easily. That's why 90% of the Fortune 500 use Canva. Start designing today at canva.com, designed for work. And talking about growth, let's dive into how Voyantis is transforming customer acquisition. As this is my growth podcast, I'm so excited to share with you the story of the fastest growing company in my portfolio, voyantis.ai, who isn't being asked by their board to improve unit economics. Voyantis is the first and only company I've seen that has found the way for you to crack this nut by not only leveraging your first-party data to predict customers' lifetime value, but truly coupling these predictions with a prescriptive layer integrating with and influencing each and every step of your customers' growth journey. Voyantis helps you acquire the right customers in Google and Meta, allocate incentives to the right customers via your Salesforce and Braze, and trigger the right upsell option at the right time for each of your customers. Oh, and the best part, Voyantis are not only increasing ROI by 20 to 40% and improving the quality of your customers, their solution has already improved unit economics for leading companies such as Miro, Rappi, Moneyline and many, many more. So if you want to improve your LTV-CAC ratio before your next board meeting, start by heading over to voyantis.ai/20vc.
That's v-o-r-n-t-i-s dot a-i slash 20VC to get a free value assessment. You have now arrived at your destination. Antoine, I am so excited for this. First, thank you so much for joining me today.

**Antoine Le Nel** (3:14)
Thank you for having me.

**Harry Stebbings** (3:15)
Now, we have many mutual friends, mostly also hailing from your start at King. So, I want to start with that. When you look at the insanely successful growth of Candy Crush, what did King do well that was instrumental to the success and growth?

**Antoine Le Nel** (3:29)
I think, first of all, everyone thinks there was a huge amount of luck. I think the idea that what King did really well, I think they've tested extensively everything. So, it was a volume game, you know, at some point. They understood that super quickly, saying, you need to try as much as you can. At some point, something will pick up. I think they did that super, super, super well. And I think then there was this super fast pace. I remember we were launching a game, like every quarter, pretty much, we were launching a game. And not every, all of them were successful, but just like the pace at which we were producing games, releasing the games and so on, I think we did that super, super well.

**Harry Stebbings** (4:07)
The thing you have to get very good at, though, is cutting when you see the data isn't showing signs. How long is enough data, or how much data is enough data to know that it wasn't working?