20Growth: How to Build a $100M Growth Engine: Lessons from Wispr Flow and Superhuman | Why You Should Do Paid Ads Today and How To Do Them | How to Build the Best Referral Programs and How to Crush UGC with Matt Swulinski

**Matt Swulinski** (0:00)
Probably fire most of your marketing team. My philosophy is the e-comm playbook is the right playbook for SaaS. Every single cent needs to equal a purchase or an add to cart. Paid is the easiest way to validate that you have PLG. I say there's the core three of any acquisition engine. You have meta-Google and Lifecycle. You probably need at least 400 to 500 new creatives a month. We have kids that are like 17, 18, 19, that are making 20, 30K a month, just making a couple ads for us.

**Harry Stebbings** (0:29)
This is 20 Growth with me, Harry Stebbings. So, 20 Growth is the monthly show where we sit down with the biggest and best growth leaders to discuss how they grow incredible products to millions of users. Well, today we have one of the best, Matt Swulinski. He's worked at Superhuman, he's worked at Wispr Flow, and now he's just joined Accel back to victor.com, and he's looking to make it third time. I wouldn't say lucky because he is a master of growth. Look at Superhuman and Wispr. These are two of the fastest growing product-led growth products, and this is a master class in how you grow really freaking fast in a world of AI. But before we dive into the show today, we used AlphaSense on an investment that helped us close an $8 million deal. $8 million, baby, that's a lot of money. That's why I'm genuinely excited to have them as a partner on 20VC. AlphaSense combines AI with one of the world's deepest libraries of market intelligence, including expert interviews, broker research, earnings calls, company filings, and real-time news. Every answer is grounded in this incredibly trusted evidence and fully traceable to the original source, which is so important, so you can make really high conviction decisions with confidence. But the best part, they're building super analyst and always on AI analyst. So instead of starting your day with another search, you'll start with work you already done, your coverage monitored, the important development surfaced, and your investment brief already waiting for you. See for yourself, head to alphasense.com/20vc, that's alpha hyphen sense.com/20vc.
While Alphasense sharpens the strategy, MongoDB scales the product. MongoDB has always been the database developers love. Well, now it's the data platform AI agents need. Agents need accurate context, fast. MongoDB stores, searches and reasons over your data in real time. JSON-native database, vector search and voyage AI embeddings all in one place. One system instead of ten, no data pipelines to maintain. Oh, this sounds too good to be true. Build and scale from your first user to billions of vectors. Run on any cloud on-prem or your laptop even. That's why 75% of the Fortune 100 run their most critical apps on MongoDB, moving trillions of dollars every single day. And it's why AI-native companies like 11 Labs run 40 million agents on MongoDB. So if you're building in AI, MongoDB for startups helps you move faster with Atlas and Voyage AI credits and dedicated support. Don't build agents that answer once and forget. Build agents that remember and learn from your real-time data. Go to mongodb.com/agents.
That's mongodb.com/agents.
While mongodb scales the product, Framer scales the story. Framer is a complete website platform, not just a builder. From early stage startups to Fortune 500s, teams build on Framer because changes take minutes instead of days. Here's what I love. Framer is the pro-AI website builder for creators, teams and businesses that care enough to get every detail right. The agents close the gap between AI-generated ideas and production-ready website work because it all happens where the site actually lives. It lands on the canvas, stays editable, and can be published when the team is ready. So you can build custom code components, create and manage CMS content, optimize SEO settings, and ship everything all in one place. The agents bring speed and scale. You bring taste, judgment, and control. It's an enterprise-level solution too. Premium hosting, enterprise-grade security, 99.99% uptime SLAs, which is why the world's leading brands, like Perplexity and Miro, build in Framer. Learn how you can get more out of your site from a Framer Specialist, or get started by building for free today at framer.com/20vc for 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan. That's framer.com/20vc for 30% off. framer.com/20vc. Rules and restrictions may apply. You have now arrived at your destination. Matt, it is so good to have you on the show. Thank you so much for joining me, Matt.

**Matt Swulinski** (4:42)
Yeah, thanks for being here.

**Harry Stebbings** (4:43)
Now, you've worked with some of the best companies from Superhuman to Whisper, now with Viktor, and we've seen these companies, and a huge amount of SaaS companies rise with the product-led growth PLG motion. Now, we're entering a world of agents. What changes in the growth world when we shift from humans to agents with product-led growth?