Your Brain On... Eating Meat

Ayesha Sherzai (0:05)

Welcome to Your Brain On Podcast with your hosts, doctors Ayesha and Dean Sherzai. Today, we are going to tackle a question that is loaded with controversy, culture and confusion. Do we have to eat meat for a healthy brain? Dean, before we dive into this subject and introduce the phenomenal guests that we have, I'd love to ask you a question about what your experience has been related to this topic, like eating meat and health in general, but specifically brain health, and why is it that it's such a touchy-feely subject? And why is there still a lot of confusion and controversy going on in that area?

Dean Sherzai (0:45)

It's extremely controversial and it's understandable. It's controversial because it's something that's been with us for millennia from the beginning of our existence. It has to do with more than just consumption. It is culture, it is family, it is identity. So whenever you bring this topic up, you're not bringing the topic in isolation. It's all those experiences that go with it. All the family stories. And we must have respect for that. Because if we don't, then we're really not addressing it truly. It's not just pure science where you find a P-value or a confidence interval and you say, here it is and the world should change. It doesn't. It must take it to account. The history that created this dilemma. The beauty of this is that if you take it in this sense, it helps us with all the other changes that we have to take on in public health. None of the things that we deal in public health is devoid of the totality of the cultural, familial, social aspects that we talk about. We've seen it in every conversation in the family. We've experienced it in every community we've been to. And to be honest, one thing that I take pride in is the fact that we've become more sensitive and more caring and more understanding of the whole spectrum of that expression. So I think this conversation is important beyond just the science of health. It is sociology, it's psychology, it's philosophy, it's religion. These are heavy topics.

Ayesha Sherzai (2:14)

I'm hoping that by introducing our guests and including their voice in this conversation, we're going to provide a framework of thought and agency for our audience so that they can make their own decisions moving forward, free of any bias, free of any cherry picking. I'm so happy that the guests that have accepted to come on this show are incredible human beings to begin with, first of all, with a lot of integrity and capacity, and they're doing phenomenal work in their own realms. And they'll help guide us to understand the why and the what and the how of eating meat and its health outcomes.

Dean Sherzai (2:54)

I think one thing that should be done at the very onset is to get the audience ready with the idea that there's no bias in this conversation. The whole world has experienced this tension between eating meat or not eating meat. And I want people to kind of come to this conversation realizing that we don't have a judgment. We do have a direction. We are ourselves plant-based and we don't eat meat. But we also want the audience to understand that we come to this conversation trying to make sure that we bring all the data to the topic without any bias. And as much as people think that's not possible, it is. Because if we recognize that everybody got to where we are with our beautiful and complex histories, then we try to understand and disentangle that as opposed to just clash heads and hope that in that clash you create a direction. It doesn't work like that.

Ayesha Sherzai (3:46)

Beautifully stated. All right. So first up, our guest is Dr. Christopher Gardner, who is a Professor of Medicine and a Nutrition Scientist at Stanford. He's led some of the most influential diet studies of the past two decades, including the Landmark Diet Fits Trial. And he is so passionate. I love when he speaks. I love his passion about shifting institutional food systems towards healthier and more sustainable. And as he puts it, unapologetically delicious meals. So here is Dr. Christopher Gardner. How are you, first of all?

Christopher Gardner (4:22)

Life is a roller coaster. It is exhilarating and terrifying from one minute to the next. Crazy Times misinformation is rampant. And it's so frustrating. Evidence-based science is under attack, it's being disregarded. These are really weird times.

Ayesha Sherzai (4:37)

It really is. Both of my children are in science. And I fear for them because of the misinformation that is just taking all this real estate of our minds and of our lives. How are we going to navigate through it? As a parent and as a responsible citizen, I am concerned. But we have people like you who make it easier to understand things better and bring the voice of reason. So I appreciate you so much. And it's a privilege to be here with you, Christopher. You're one of the most respected and innovative nutrition researchers in the world. For decades, you've been leading the conversation and showing how the foods that we eat affect our health. And you've done landmark clinical trials and you've even shaped our dietary guidelines. What I admire about your work is how you cut through the noise of diet wars. Even at a time when so many people feel confused by the conflicting messages, you remind us that there's more consensus than controversy. So you're not only a scientist, you're a teacher, you're a communicator who makes these issues very clear and practical. And I'm so excited to speak to you today. Thank you so much for your time.