Your Brain On... Brain-Computer Interfaces

Ayesha Sherzai (0:00)

Is this thing on? That's what a man named Casey Harrell asked while participating in the trial of a brain-computer interface, which, though ALS had caused Casey to lose control of the muscles used to speak, allowed him to speak again. It was an incredibly powerful moment, and we're so excited and honored to be discussing the project with the scientists, neurosurgeons, and neural engineers who made it happen. We're doctors Ayesha and Dean Sherzai, and this is Your Brain On Brain-Computer Interface. So, Dane, this is such an exciting episode, especially because of how at this day and age, we're seeing the advances that are happening in this area. And as a Trekkie, I grew up watching Star Trek, and I'm a big sci-fi fan, and you are as well. To see some of these things that were basically related to stories and myths coming to reality and seeing its impact on patients' lives is incredibly exciting and awe-inspiring in many ways.

Dean Sherzai (1:12)

It is. Especially as a neurologist, we see patients who come to the emergency room who've had an accident and are paralyzed for the rest of their life because of a spinal cord injury or injury to their occipital lobe or eyes and they can't see, or the fact that they had a stroke and they can't speak, or they have ALS and they slowly lose their ability to speak or walk. We are the precipice of a remarkable revolution in medicine where people who couldn't walk before could potentially walk and not potentially, they will be walking. And those who had lost their capacity to speak, that one we're seeing now, it's very exciting.

Ayesha Sherzai (1:48)

Two of our guests for this episode are neurosurgeons, Dr. David Brandman and neural engineer, Dr. Sergey Stavisky. Both are the co-directors of the UC Davis Neuroprosthetics Lab, which developed the technology we mentioned in the intro. Here's a snippet from one of their recent videos.

Casey Harrell (2:06)

It feels a lot like me. It makes people cry who have not heard me in a while.

Sergey Stavisky (2:11)

I think we're at a point where it does work well enough that it really lets him just be a part of society and to talk.

Casey Harrell (2:18)

I am able to still work full time for climate action, and I am able to do that well and more efficiently with this device. I hope that we are at a time when everyone who is like me have the same opportunity as I do to have a device like this that will help them communicate. Let's all make that happen, okay?

Ayesha Sherzai (2:37)

One of the interesting things that Dr. Brandman mentioned was how society's perception about brain-computer interface and this technology in medicine is still influenced by their perception of what sci-fi is. And I think that's the case with a lot of things. Usually newer concepts are introduced as stories and as myths and then suddenly before you know it, they become a part of our reality. That does bring about some sense of apprehension and fear in people.

Dean Sherzai (3:07)

It does. That's natural, especially at the population level for people to be incredulous and suspicious of new things. It's almost like a defense mechanism. Evolutionarily, we are more on the side of protecting ourselves. That's why anytime something new comes up, there's resistance to it. When antibiotics came, there was a huge suspicion. When x-rays came, there was a suspicion of what it was being used for and whether it was useful. Same thing with other imaging techniques and genetics. You hear all these stories about genetics, really things that don't even have any connection to reality. But people are quite suspicious of genetic testing and things of that nature. And every step has worries and suspicions. And part of it is that we have failed in the past, really translating science to the population. That's where the failure has been. We separate ourselves from a scientific perspective, from the population, and all of a sudden something is introduced without the necessary storylines that have to be built around something. And the storylines around brain-machine interface, if you think about it, it's all negative. Star Wars, Borg.

Ayesha Sherzai (4:09)

Oh my gosh, the cyborg?

Dean Sherzai (4:10)

The cyborg.

Ayesha Sherzai (4:11)

In movies, it's usually that villain that is being controlled by an outside force. It's just the thought of your brain being controlled by something else other than you and the whole privacy issue of how things can actually just become available to public. That's also very scary too. And you're right, I don't think we've done a good job of explaining this to the public. The whole purpose of this conversation is to introduce this concept and this technology to everyone, our lovely listeners, and for them to be aware of all this fantastic work that is being done. Yes, it may sound uncomfortable and new and the whole idea of something inside your brain sounds intrusive, but when you look at the outcome and when you look at how it impacts people's lives, I think that part of it is probably one of the most human thing ever. We're augmenting human dignity and respect and their quality of life and their capacity to be who they want to be.