Your Brain On... Autism

Ayesha Sherzai (0:00)

In 1943, an Austrian-American psychiatrist named Dr. Leo Kanner published a paper describing 11 children who seemed, quote, different from the beginning of life. They showed little interest in other people, struggled with communication, and were unusually focused on certain objects or routines. He called it early infantile autism. Since then, our understanding of autism has expanded dramatically. It is a neurodevelopmental condition that shapes how people perceive, process, and interact with the world around them. Autism shows up in many different ways, affects millions of people, and yet myths and misinformation continue to shape how we talk about it, how we treat it, and even think about it. If you're a parent navigating a new diagnosis, or someone who loves an autistic person, or maybe you're autistic yourself, you are not alone. The science is clearer than ever, but support can still feel confusing, inconsistent, and isolating. In this episode, we explore what autism is and what it isn't. We talk about how it emerges in infancy, how science is uncovering its deep genetic roots, and how early intervention can change lives. And we dig into why autism remains a lightning rod for misinformation, from vaccine myths to cures. To help us navigate this complex terrain, we spoke with three incredible guests. Dr. Ami Klin, a pioneer in early autism research and director of the Marcus Autism Center at Emory University, whose work has shown that autism can be detected in babies as young as two months old. Dr. Joseph Buxbaum, a leading geneticist and director of the Seaver Autism Center at Mount Sinai, who has uncovered some of the key genetic pathways that shape autism. And last but not least, Dr. Andrea Love, biomedical scientist, immunologist, microbiologist, a fantastic science communicator and founder of ImmunoLogic, who has spent years debunking myths around autism, vaccines and the immune system. Whether you're seeking clarity, compassion, or just a little more understanding, we're so glad you're here. This is Your Brain On Autism.

Dean, I'm so glad we're talking about autism. I think you and I had planned to speak about autism for a very long time, but we were being very circumspect about it because it definitely can be a sensitive topic to talk about nowadays.

Dean Sherzai (2:43)

It is.

Ayesha Sherzai (2:44)

It shouldn't be, but it is.

Dean Sherzai (2:45)

Nothing should be sensitive. I mean, if we don't have preconceived notions and we don't connect our egos or characters as part of a team or a group that believe in certain things, and the only team and group or concept that we are beholden to or are loyal to as reason and data, then there is no controversy. The problem arises when everything has developed into camps. Science is not about group beliefs or even individual beliefs. It's about where the data takes us.

And it's about how we all become more aware, more knowledgeable, and more adept at maneuvering around data, manipulating data, identifying the biases in data, and then together come to conclusions that affect us positively. We really need to start looking at information around us in a different way. We really have to, all of us, as you and I speak, there's no way that we don't have biases. We do. But one of the highest priority for humanity in general right now is for us all to start challenging our preconceived biases and just work around data. And nothing, no subject is more controversial in science right now than this. And I hope that when we speak today, when we get done with everything that we say, and speaking with all the amazing scientists, the audience will come out of this with not so much as a belief in an outcome or a certainty about an outcome, but a better way of looking at data. That's it. I actually am not expecting the audience to come out of this with certain preconceived notions. I want the audience to come out of this with a slight improvement in their ability to look at data, analyze data. And the same is true for us, the two of us. I hope that we don't come into it with biases, but I'm sure that we do. But awareness is the first step.

Ayesha Sherzai (4:54)

Agreed. And also highlighting what we know and being okay with what we don't know and not filling up the space of the things that we're not sure about with things that feel good or feel comfortable. I think it's absolutely fine for us to feel a little uncomfortable because if we don't, then we will perpetually start making up stories and confirming our biases. All right. So I think as we start any discussion, whether it's the two of us together on this podcast or with our kids, everything should start with definition. So let's go ahead and define what autism is. According to the DSM-5, which is the American Psychiatric Association's definition, autism spectrum disorder, which is ASD, is defined by persistent difficulties in social communication and interaction and restricted repetitive behaviors or interests. And symptoms can start very early in life, in development. And then there is a WHO or World Health Organization, ICD-11 definition. So ASD is a neurodevelopmental disorder marked by persistent deficits in reciprocal social communication, restricted repetitive and inflexible patterns of behavior and interests, and that these traits can vary in different manifestations. So their language ability, cognitive function, and sensory responsiveness. Those are the two main definitions of ASD.