You Might Also Like: Unbossing

Rishad Tobaccowala (0:09)

The world is it what it used to be. The future doesn't fit in the containers of the past, and leadership is one container that needs to be radically reshaped.

Drew Ianni (0:18)

Rishad, that's so right. We have new technologies, AI, and new expectations around work.

Rishad Tobaccowala (0:24)

Welcome to Unbossing, a show that re-evaluates leadership in a new age of business and work.

Drew Ianni (0:31)

In each episode, we're going to connect with the most badass bosses in business and tech and ask them, what did you have to unlearn to succeed again?

Rishad Tobaccowala (0:39)

I'm Rishad Tobaccowala. I've spent decades of the intersection of business, media, and marketing, watching industries transform, watching leaders rise and fall, and trying to make sense of what actually works when everything keeps changing.

Drew Ianni (0:54)

I'm Drew Ianni. I've spent my career in media, tech, live experiences, and entrepreneurship, and I've come to believe that the most dangerous thing a leader can do right now is be too attached to what worked before. For our very first episode, we couldn't have asked for a better guest, Rishad. He spent 25 years building Netflix from a scrappy DVD by male startup into one of the most influential names in the history of entertainment.

Rishad Tobaccowala (1:18)

He also wrote one of the most studied company culture documents in Silicon Valley history, the famous Netflix Culture Memo. Under Reed Hastings, Netflix grew into a multi-billion dollar company.

Drew Ianni (1:31)

Then he did something most founders can't do. He stepped away while the company was still winning.

Today, he's developing a private ski mountain community in Utah called Powder Mountain.

Rishad Tobaccowala (1:42)

One of the things I've often been told is every career has a midnight hour and the smart people leave at 5 to 12 Most people are not smart enough to do so, but here is a gentleman who definitely left probably at quarter to 12

Drew Ianni (1:57)

That's right.

Rishad Tobaccowala (1:58)

In addition to his newest venture in real estate, he's also serving on the board of the leading AI company Anthropic and reflecting on everything he's built, including what he wishes he'd done differently. This is a conversation about unlearning at the highest level.

Drew Ianni (2:16)

The highest level indeed, Rishad. Let's jump into our conversation with Reed Hastings.

Rishad Tobaccowala (2:26)

Reed, thank you again for being on the show. What are you up to these days and what's top of mind for you?

Reed Hastings (2:33)

Well, Rishad, I had the privilege of running Netflix for 25 years, and I loved every moment. It was just growth, global content, exciting. But three years ago, I retired.

Then my new project is this real estate development at Powder Mountain, creating an amazing community.

It could not be more different from Netflix. I know all the customers. It's a small group in the community and participating, and it's so much fun. Again, luxury real estate, it turns out, has a lot of similarities to Netflix, mostly in the organizational dynamics. How do we build a great culture within the organization, and then from that deliver amazing services to our members.

Rishad Tobaccowala (3:23)

So culture is something that clearly you and your colleagues at Netflix are famous for, both in the years of Netflix culture as well as now. What are some of the things that have remained the same, and what are some of the things that have changed, if any?

Reed Hastings (3:42)

Well, the fundamental thing that stayed the same is the focus on team, not family, and organizing your company like it was a professional sports team, when you have to play for your position all the time to seek the championship.

That has the core metaphor rather than the family metaphor, which is quite common and strong. So it's quite a big shift getting people to the team orientation.

I would say the second thing that's stayed the same is kind of managing through context rather than control. So the factory is the other big metaphor that we've had, a power of the industrial revolution and provided huge value. So thinking of a business as a factory is also very, very common. But many of our businesses are creative businesses, not a factory. And they want to be managed quite differently than a factory, much less top down, and much more inspiring rather than managing.

Drew Ianni (4:47)

Reed, one follow up in regards to culture. We've had two fairly traumatic and dramatic events in the last several years. I still don't believe we're fully through COVID in terms of its long-term sort of effects on us as human beings. And then of course, AI. And there's a lot of fear about staying relevant and not being replaced. Do you have advice for leaders as they lead their teams? And there is a lot of fear out there. How do you help them work through that? How do you keep your own teams motivated?