You Might Also Like: The Oprah Podcast

Oprah Winfrey (0:00)

This book is so truthful and resonates so powerfully. This is going to be one of those books you keep by your bedside forever.

Drew Barrymore (0:07)

He has helped me understand our greatest devastations can become our greatest strengths.

SPEAKER_3 (0:14)

Right now, I'm kind of in the, it's not fair phase, why me?

Barry Michels (0:18)

Everything that happens to you, especially the worst things that happen to you, are there for a reason, and then you can use those things to help you transform yourself.

Oprah Winfrey (0:32)

Hi there, and a warm welcome to you all. Thanks for being here with me on the Oprah Podcast.

While I was getting ready for this episode, I read this statistic that dementia is right up there with cancer as the most feared medical condition, and I have to say that doesn't surprise me, and I'm sure it doesn't surprise many of you who are listening or watching, because there's no cure, and many of us see the devastation that patients endure, the loss of independence, of course, the loss of memories and the loss of, this is the thing I think most people fear, is the loss of your very self.

And when my next guest was diagnosed with Lewy body dementia, he was told that it will ravage his brain, he will lose his mobility, he may display bizarre behavior, he may even endure terrifying hallucinations. He suffered through many dark nights of the soul, because can you imagine being told that? And he suffered before he began to see his fate as a blessing. And so when I first heard that, I was like, this is just the worst diagnosis you could possibly receive. I don't know how anybody could see that as a blessing. And of course, I wanted to talk to anybody who could see that a blessing, as a blessing, and that anybody is here today. I know that may be hard for you all to believe, so I wanted to learn too how he got to this place. He's a renowned psychotherapist and bestselling author. Barry Michels is here to share with all of us how he became fully alive in the face of dire adversity. He says that we all can, you can, I can, and it doesn't take us a crisis to get there. And his new book, Chronicling, His Path from Diagnosis to Acceptance, is just extraordinary. When I tell you, this is a book you're going to want for yourself, and you absolutely want to gift it to anybody who loves life, is going through a trial, has been through a trial, or just appreciates being human, it's extraordinary. It's called Ahead of All Parting. Barry, thank you for being here.

Barry Michels (3:07)

Thank you so much for having me.

Oprah Winfrey (3:08)

That's just the worst diagnosis I think anybody could ever receive. I think a lot of people fear cancer, but even in fearing cancer, you know there may be a cure, or there may be, even after you've tried all the things, I have a family member going through it now, there's a clinical trial, you know? So there's some glimmer of hope, but a diagnosis like that.

Barry Michels (3:32)

And also with cancer, your consciousness remains intact. You are still yourself.

Oprah Winfrey (3:37)

Yes.

Barry Michels (3:38)

The thing about Lewy Buddy dementia and any other form of dementia is you begin to lose what defines you as you.

Oprah Winfrey (3:46)

Yeah, or what you thought. Or at least what you thought defines you. So let's begin with how are you today? When I was reading this, I was like, well, will I even be able to talk to you? Because, you know, had it progressed to a point where you wouldn't even be able to have a conversation. So how are you?

Barry Michels (4:04)

I'm all right. I have good days and bad days. This is about sort of a medium day.

Oprah Winfrey (4:10)

And what does that mean?

Barry Michels (4:12)

What it means is that my brain isn't as sharp as I'm used to it being.

I may fumble a little bit with answers. I might not remember parts of the book that I should remember. But I'm not completely fogged out or completely, you know, disoriented or anything like that.

Oprah Winfrey (4:30)

So a bad day would have you completely fogged out?

Barry Michels (4:32)

I, you know, that's a bit of an exaggeration. I wouldn't say that I ever get to that point. But I do have days where I feel like I really shouldn't do psychotherapy today because I'm not really going to be helpful to the person.