World’s Most Influential Psychologist: The Hidden Force That Drives Human Progress | Dr. Martin Seligman – EP 817

John R. Miles (0:00)

Have you ever reached a point where you stop believing that anything you did would really make a difference? Maybe you kept trying.

Maybe you worked harder. Maybe you kept showing up. But eventually, something inside you started to wonder, why bother? When I asked Dr. Marty Seligman, what happens when people lose their sense of agency, his answer went to the heart of more than 60 years of his research. Take a listen.

Martin Seligman (0:34)

Individual action is where things start. But whether or not it modifies the world, that is you have mastery and agency, or it falls flat and you're helpless and you're non-agentic, is crucial to the shaping of the self and to flourishing.

And in general, the more reciprocity, the more our actions produce upward spirals in the world, the more agency, the more flourishing we have.

John R. Miles (1:14)

John, and welcome to Passion Struck. I'm so glad you're here. Whether you're a longtime listener or someone who just discovered the show, thank you for pressing play today.

Maybe you've built the life you were supposed to want, but you've quietly wondered why it still doesn't feel like enough.

If that's you, you're in the right place. Every week, I sit down with the world's top scientists, researchers and thinkers to uncover what it actually takes to build an intentional life that matters. Thanks for joining me. Let's get into it.

Welcome back to Passion Struck. I'm so glad you're here. This is episode 817, and today we're continuing our new series, The Adaptive Human, How We Thrive in a Changing World. Over the past two episodes, we've been exploring an important question. How much control do we really have over the direction of our lives? Angela Duckworth challenged us to think about the power of situations we're in, the people, the places, and the environments that quietly shape our behavior. Jared Diamond took that question even further, asking when individual leaders can actually change the course of history. But today, we come to the question underneath both of those conversations.

Do we believe our actions can make a difference? Because there are moments in life when that belief gets tested. You try, you fail, you try again, and eventually, especially, when nothing seems to change, it's so easy to begin asking yourself, why bother? That's exactly why I wanted to have this conversation with Dr. Marty Seligman. Marty is one of the most influential psychologists of our time, and one of the pioneers of positive psychology. For more than 60 years, his work has explored helplessness, optimism, flourishing, and one of the most important ideas we'll discuss today, Agency. In his new book Agency, Marty explores what happens when people, organizations and even entire societies lose the belief that their actions can shape what comes next, and what it takes to reclaim it. In this conversation, we talk about why learned helplessness is about more than simply giving up, why agency begins with action, how hope differs from optimism, and why the way the world responds to our actions helps shape our sense of who we are. But here's what stayed with me long after we finished recording. This wasn't just a conversation about psychology, was a conversation about what happens when we stop believing that we matter to the world around us. Because agency requires more than action. Somewhere along the way, we have to believe that what we do can create a response, that our choices can influence something beyond ourselves.

When we lose that belief, it's not just our motivation that disappears, our sense of possibility can disappear with it. I think that's a conversation that all of us need right now. Let's dive into it. Here's my conversation with Dr. Marty Seligman. Thank you for choosing Passion Struck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life that matters. Now, let that journey begin.

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John R. Miles (5:20)

I am absolutely honored and thrilled to welcome Professor Martin Seligman on Passion Struck. Marty, it is such an honor to have you on the show.

Martin Seligman (5:31)

Oh, thank you, John. I'm happy to be here.