World-Leading Psychologist: How to Change Your Life by Changing What’s Around You | Angela Duckworth - EP 814

**John R. Miles** (0:00)
What if the problem isn't that you need more grit? What if you're simply in the wrong situation? We spent years being told that success comes down to what's inside us, our discipline, our mindset, our perseverance. But when I sat down with Angela Duckworth, she challenged that idea in a way I didn't expect.
She told me that sometimes the difference between struggling and thriving isn't a different person, it's a different environment. Take a listen to this.

**Angela Duckworth** (0:32)
Whether you are optimistic or discouraged, whether you think your work is interesting and that you matter or you think the opposite is not just a function of what's inside you, it's also a function of where you are.

**John R. Miles** (0:46)
It's your friend John, and welcome to Passion Struck. I'm so glad you're here. Whether you're a longtime listener or someone who just discovered the show, thank you for pressing play today.
Maybe you've built the life you were supposed to want, but you've quietly wondered why it still doesn't feel like enough.
If that's you, you're in the right place. Every week, I sit down with the world's top scientists, researchers and thinkers to uncover what it actually takes to build an intentional life that matters. Thanks for joining me. Let's get into it.
This is episode 814 of Passion Struck. Today, we're kicking off a brand new series called the Adaptive Human, how we thrive in a changing world. Last month in the Adaptive Brain Series, we explored how our brains change, how biology influences us, how our environments shape our behavior, and what it takes to keep becoming. Now, we're widening the lens, because adapting isn't something that happens inside your brain. It happens in relationship with the world around you. I can't think of a better person to begin this conversation with than Angela Duckworth. You probably know Angela from her groundbreaking work on grit, the power of passion and perseverance over time. But in her new book, Situated, Angela takes the idea somewhere much deeper. She argues that grit is necessary, but it isn't sufficient. The people around us, the places we live and work, the cultures we're a part of, and the situations we find ourselves in, can either amplify our strengths or diminish them. And that raises a question I couldn't stop thinking about while reading the book. Do our situations change who we are, or do they reveal who we already are? Because think about your own life. There are probably people who bring out your confidence. Places where you feel more creative, environments where you become more generous, curious, ambitious, or courageous.
And there may be other situations where you become a version of yourself you didn't particularly like. Angela and I get into all of that. We talk about situational awareness, the power of mentors and peers. Why willpower is often the least effective place to intervene, and how leaders can create environments where people are more likely to flourish.
And we go somewhere especially important to me, and for the work I'm doing around my upcoming book, The Mattering Effect. Can the situations we create actually communicate to people that they matter? Angela and I explore what happens when people are constantly required to prove their worth, and what changes when an environment instead communicates, you belong here, your contributions matter, we want you to succeed. This conversation made me rethink something I say all the time. Sometimes, the most intentional thing you can do isn't to try harder, it's to challenge the conditions that you're trying so hard to survive in. So let's dive in. Here's my conversation with Angela Duckworth. Thank you for choosing Passion Struck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life that matters. Now, let that journey begin.
I am absolutely thrilled to welcome Angela Duckworth back to Passion Struck. Angela, it's so great to see you again.

**Angela Duckworth** (4:34)
John, I'm so happy to be talking again.

**John R. Miles** (4:37)
Last time, we shared a conversation about your book, Grit, and we discussed and really tried to help people understand how passion and perseverance matter enormously to so many people. But you now have this new book coming out that I'm holding right here for those who are watching.

**Angela Duckworth** (4:54)
You are holding a dance copy.

**John R. Miles** (4:56)
Called Situated, Find the People in Places That Bring Out Your Best. What made you realize that grit was necessary but not sufficient?

**Angela Duckworth** (5:06)
Well, I will say I know people watch head talks and people get on stage and they're like, I had an epiphany and my whole world is different. What was white is black, what was black is white. I mean, that makes for a really tidy narrative. It's not quite that. It's not, oh, I thought success was entirely an inside game. I now realize it's also an outside game. Not just what's inside your head, but the people in places that surround you. That's not quite true because when I was in graduate school, I was a TA for social psychology, and one of the most important discoveries, you could argue like the whole foundation of the field of social psychology is the importance of the situation. There's this really famous book among nerdy academics called The Person and the Situation by Dick Nisbet and Lee Ross. It's not a bestseller.