World Expert on Fatherhood & Love: The Truth About Monogamy, Breakups & The Science of Love! Dr. Anna Machin

Steven Bartlett (0:01)

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Anna Machin (0:29)

We are not a monogamous species. It's a social construct. And I get attacked for saying things like this. But sexual monogamy from an evolutionary point of view is not a good idea. That's why we have a reasonably high rate of people who have extra marital affairs.

Steven Bartlett (0:40)

So do you think we're all somewhat pretending to be monogamous? Who do you think struggles with it more, men or women? And you said that there's not a difference in well-being and satisfaction between polyamory or monogamy.

Anna Machin (0:50)

Absolutely not.

Steven Bartlett (0:51)

How do you know this?

Anna Machin (0:52)

Because we've done studies on it. And I've committed the last two decades of my life to understand the neuroscience of love.

SPEAKER_3 (0:57)

Dr. Anna Machin is the Oxford-trained evolutionary anthropologist using science to decode attraction, attachment styles, love addiction. Now the crucial roles of the father.

Anna Machin (1:08)

So here's the thing, when you look for a partner, we don't know we're doing it. And it involves two very distinct areas of the brain. So there's the unconscious stage. That's where you've taken loads of sensory information about them. So for example, if you're a woman, you can smell genetic compatibility.

Steven Bartlett (1:23)

Wait, so men can't smell women, but women can smell men?

Anna Machin (1:26)

Well, you can smell them, but it's not going to give you any information about genetic compatibility. So your brain is going to help you assess whether they're any good for you. If you get a good ping, certain chemicals flood the very core of the brain, take away the fear, it gives you the motivation. Now, human love is so complicated. So for example, the chemistry that underpins love is also involved in neurodiversity.

Steven Bartlett (1:44)

So if I have ADHD or autism, how am I more likely to struggle in love?

Anna Machin (1:48)

This is really, really important.

Steven Bartlett (1:50)

First of all, Dr. Machin, why are you talking about fatherhood?

Anna Machin (1:55)

The way our culture treats fathers is wrong. The myths we carry about fathers are wrong. Men have a very specific role in child development. I wasn't expecting to find this when I first started, but it's fundamental for a child to thrive and survive and be successful. So what we're finding is...

Steven Bartlett (2:12)

Quick one before we get back to this episode, just give me 30 seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning in to the show week after week. It means the world to all of us and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here, please join the 24% of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app. Here's a promise I'm going to make to you. I'm going to do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to and we're going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you. Thank you so much. Back to the episode.

Dr. Anna Machin, what is the mission you've so far committed your life to? And I guess adding to that, why?

Anna Machin (3:08)

I've committed the last two decades of my life to understanding human love and understanding human close relationships.

Because as an anthropologist, I understand that love sits at the center of what it is to be human. If you strip everything else away and you just, you've got your food, you've got your water, the next thing you need are your relationships, is your love. And we are so lucky as a species to experience love in quite a complex way with many different types of people and beings. And we know that it's like the number one thing in terms of your health, mental, physical, your longevity, your happiness, your well-being. And I think we need to understand it, particularly in a world where we're starting to get a lot of input in terms of technology and AI, and the world is getting quicker. We need to go back to who we are really at our core and what love really is. And I suppose that's what I've given my life over to, is to really explain to people who are you, because your love is your identity, essentially.