World DBT Summit Coming – Episode 127

Charlie Swenson (0:00)

Hello, everybody. This is a special edition of the To Hell and Back podcast.

Let me introduce it this way. Marsha Linehan, for years, was concerned that if she wasn't any longer running the show all the time, the show wasn't going to go on. She was worried that there wouldn't be enough momentum in the field to continue to meet her original vision, which was to get them all out of hell, all of the people suffering like she did. And I'd like to say to her right now, we're in very good hands. Momentum has continued. Momentum has speeded up.

And right now, it's all over the world. A few years ago, in anticipating these moments, a group of people, experts in DBT from various countries, got together and started to create what turned into the World DBT Association. And by now, many iterations later, there are multiple chapters around the world, like a European chapter, North American chapter, Southeast Asian chapter, Iber America with South America chapter, with Middle East and North Africa chapter. There's all these chapters around the world that are thriving when you see what they're doing. So that brings me to what is this about?

I don't know, some kind of collective genius in this group has now led to the decision to have a World DBT Summit, which is like a first ever thing. Not first ever about everything. It's basically like the equivalent of a 24-hour telethon, but a global telethon that moves around the world as the 24 hours go by. And that's what you're going to hear about today because the people with me today that I'm basically interviewing, I guess I'm the host for the co-hosts of the World DBT Summit. And so they're going to tell us about that summit, what the point is, how did it come in to be, how is it structured, how can you partake in it, what's it going to offer. And so they're going to answer a lot of questions.

And then it'll begin in October, October 28th. So this is my chance. So let me introduce the co-hosts of the World Summit. The first one, Michaela Swales as a PhD psychologist with a background of first training in DBT over 30 years ago. She has spent many, many happy hours training hundreds of teams and therapists in DBT, adapting more adherent practice. Her main research focus has been the implementation of DBT in routine practice. Currently, she is the president of the World DBT Association. Alec Miller is a clinical psychologist as well, who co-developed DBT for Adolescents over 30 years ago. He is passionate about disseminating DBT for adolescents worldwide in both clinical and school settings. He's also the co-director of Cognitive and Behavioral Consultants, which is a group practice treatment and training center in New York. So, I want to welcome both of you. This is a really, it's fun for, these are people that I've worked with and known for, God knows, 25, 30 years in implementing DBT. So, it's really exciting to get together and talk and to hear from the two of you about what this, you know, crazy event is.

Michaela Swales (4:09)

Thanks for the invitation, Charlie. It's great to be with you and to have the opportunity to talk about it.

Charlie Swenson (4:15)

You're welcome. Same here.

Alec Miller (4:17)

Great to be here with both of you.

Charlie Swenson (4:19)

All right. Very good. So, I want to start with you, Michaela. I'm going to set this off with questions, and then we're going to see where that goes.

Michaela Swales (4:29)

Yeah.

Charlie Swenson (4:30)

So, first of all, Michaela, as the president of the World DBT Association, you're probably the best person to ask right now, what is that? What's the World DBT Association?

Michaela Swales (4:40)

What is it? Yeah. And I think you, I really liked your introduction, Charlie, because you really kind of set the stage for it, really, is that it was originally a group of people who got together to think about, you know, when you've got a treatment developer who's as powerful and passionate as Marsha, you know, she held together many strings, you know, she was a pioneer in research, she also was powerful in moving, training forward, and in the dissemination effort.

But when someone retires of that stature, you have to think as a community, how might you keep that energy and keep those things moving forward?

So that was the idea behind the World DBT Association. And so in a way, it kind of reflects two things. It's got a strong emphasis on community, which is connecting people who do DBT from across the globe, from wherever they are. And part of that is also a dissemination effort, because there are many people around the world who would benefit from DBT, who maybe don't have access to the sorts of resources that some of us in some countries may have. So there's a strong community element in that sense of disseminating the treatment. But I think there are also a real, there are committees and groups who take a particular focus on things that remain important. So for example, thinking strategically about the research in DBT, what are the next key things that we need to be looking at? How might we drive that agenda forward? Then also, how might we synthesize the work of the research that's being done? What implications does that have for services, for training, and for implementation? So we have a committee that looks at training and implementation and standards and guidelines that then can be taken by the component chapters around the world to implement in their own regions. Then we also have a group of people who take care of the legacy, I might say, who look at the fidelity of the treatment. Like, what is DBT and what is its essence? Of course, there's a lovely dialectical tension. As the research agenda develops and move forward, how do we see and recognize something as DBT and honor that, and at the same time, keep the principles of the treatment?