‘Wonder Man’ star Yahya Abdul-Mateen II on cancellation and confidence

**Tonya Mosley** (0:00)
This is Fresh Air, I'm Tonya Mosley, and my guest today is Yahya Abdul-Mateen II. He's nominated for an Emmy for the Marvel series Wonder Man. He plays Simon Williams, a struggling actor with a secret. He has real superpowers, and if anyone finds out, he doesn't just lose his career, he loses his freedom.
Abdul-Mateen grew up in both New Orleans and Oakland, studied architecture at UC Berkeley, and worked as a city planner until a layoff sent him to the Yale School of Drama. He booked his first major role in 2015, nearing 30, and since then, he's performed on Broadway and Top Dog, Underdog, been cast as Black Manta and Aquaman, Bobby Seale in The Trial of the Chicago Seven, the lead in Candyman, and won an Emmy for playing Dr. Manhattan in HBO's Watchmen.
Wonder Man made him the lead in his very own Marvel series, and then two weeks after his Emmy nomination, Disney canceled the show a few months after a second season had already been announced. Yahya Abdul-Mateen II, welcome to Fresh Air.

**Yahya Abdul-Mateen II** (1:10)
What's up? Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

**Tonya Mosley** (1:13)
Why are you laughing?

**Yahya Abdul-Mateen II** (1:15)
I don't really reflect back so far, that far. You know, when first you say my name, and then you go through and you tell the story. And then when you end it off, you say, and he just lost his job.
And now he's sitting in front of me and he just lost his job. And I just thought that that was so funny, the way that I'm being talked about right now.

**Tonya Mosley** (1:40)
But you know, I mean, there's so much to talk about. The thing about it is, when Marvel approached you, you said, I only have one Marvel dollar to spend.

**Yahya Abdul-Mateen II** (1:49)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

**Tonya Mosley** (1:50)
Yeah. You asked yourself whether Wonder Man was the actual role that you were going to spend that dollar.
I'm really curious. I thought that was a really interesting way to talk about entering the Marvel Universe and being a part of something that's so big. How are you reflecting on it now that you have spent that dollar and you've gone through this journey on this show that is highly respected?

**Yahya Abdul-Mateen II** (2:14)
Yeah, so far, a dollar well spent, for sure. Look at the experience that I had, you know, and I got to put it out. Now, when I said that, I was talking about fun and longevity, you know. I was talking specifically against a one-off.

**Tonya Mosley** (2:29)
A role that is going to stand the test of time and not be a one-off.

**Yahya Abdul-Mateen II** (2:32)
And at the same time, something that was worth my time and something that I enjoyed. That's what a dollar well spent would be. Now, when I flash to present day and I do reflect back, boy, of course, it was a dollar well spent, you know.
I got to make a fantastic show and I got to play a fantastic character who many people related to.

**Tonya Mosley** (2:59)
Wonder Man is not a typical Marvel story. There's almost no action. It's a comedy. And it's a comedy about auditioning, shot like an Indie film. And the heroes' battles are with casting directors and in his own head. Your character, Simon Williams, he's a working actor in Los Angeles.
Years in, without a break, when a reclusive director announces a remake of this cheesy 80's superhero. And Simon goes after the lead. And I actually want to play a clip to set up so folks can know what we're talking about if they haven't seen it.
And in this scene, he's at his audition for Wonder Man, reading his lines. Let's listen.

**Yahya Abdul-Mateen II** (3:44)
Simon Williams, reading for Wonder Man.
The Barrett people believe if a soul fails to turn right after death, it ends up in a dark and treacherous place. Well, I've been to the void.
I lived in that scream in silence. I know what it's like. I lost whatever part was left in me that makes a person a person until Barnaby pulled me out. No one else ever gave a damn. No one. It's too late for me. But you can still walk away. I'm asking you nicely, just walk away.

**Tonya Mosley** (5:00)
That's my guess. Yahya Abdul-Mateen II as Simon in Wonder Man. And Yahya Simon is an over-preparer. He is always in his head.
But he gives this performance in his audition that just blows them away.
And I've heard you say that you kind of are the opposite when you're stepping into a role. You get the script, you get the lines down, but you step into that and then you allow yourself to surrender to the actual role. But was there a particular moment where you learned to do that when you realized that you could know a material really deeply and then there comes a point where you just have to let all that go?