Why Don’t Facts Change People’s Minds? | Dr. Jay Van Bavel - EP 805

**John R. Miles** (0:00)
Today, on Passion Struck, social psychologist, Dr. Jay Van Bavel, shared new research that should make all of us rethink how we're using artificial intelligence.
He found that the more an AI flatters us, the more extreme and overconfident we become. Take a listen to this.

**Jay Van Bavel** (0:21)
I think it's harder to build trust across groups. I'm starting to study it more and more. I think trust is also one of those linchpin basic things. We're dealing with a loss of trust in institutions, a loss of social trust in our neighbors, and countries that don't have trust lack resilience. When a crisis happens, people don't support one another. And so social trust and trust in institutions are two of the most fundamental things for a flourishing society. So now we're talking going from an individual to a society.
If you don't have trusting institutions, societies fall apart.

**John R. Miles** (0:55)
It's your friend John, and welcome to Passion Struck. I'm so glad you're here. Whether you're a long time listener or someone who just discovered the show, thank you for pressing play today.
Maybe you've built the life you were supposed to want, but you've quietly wondered why it still doesn't feel like enough.
If that's you, you're in the right place. Every week, I sit down with the world's top scientists, researchers and thinkers to uncover what it actually takes to build an intentional life that matters. Thanks for joining me. Let's get into it.
Welcome back to episode 805 of Passion Struck. I am so glad you're here. Today, we're continuing our series, The Adaptive Brain, how your mind learns, changes and heals. Over the past three episodes, we've explored something remarkable. The brain is constantly adapting. But that raises an important question. If our brains are always changing, what are they changing in response to? I hear some version of that question from many of you. You tell me you're trying to stay grounded in a world that feels louder than ever. You want to think for yourself, raise resilient kids, lead with integrity and stay true to your values, even as algorithms, social media, and artificial intelligence seem to be competing for your attention more and more every single day. That is exactly why I wanted to bring Dr. Jay Van Bavel back onto the show. Jay first joined us in episode 265, and I knew it was time to continue that conversation because his work has only become more relevant since then. Jay is a professor of psychology and neuroscience at New York University, and one of the world's leading researchers studying identity, belonging, trust, and polarization. He's also the co-author of the great book, The Power of Us.
His research explores a question that affects every one of us, whether we realize it or not. How do the groups we belong to shape the people we become? In this conversation, we're going to explore why belonging may be one of the most powerful forces influencing human behavior, why intellectual humility is becoming one of the most valuable skills that we can develop in an age of polarization and artificial intelligence, how our environments often shape us more than our intentions, and what it takes to stay curious when the world keeps rewarding certainty. But here's what stayed with me the longest after we recorded. We spent a lot of time talking about changing ourselves. Our habits, our mindset, our routines. Jay reminded me that one of the fastest ways to change your life isn't always to change yourself. Sometimes it's to change the people, places, and environments that are quietly changing you every single day.
That idea stayed with me ever since. So let's dive in. Here's my conversation with Jay Van Bavel. Thank you for choosing Passion Struck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life that matters. Now, let that journey begin.
I am so excited today to welcome back Jay Van Bavel to Passion Struck. Jay, how are you today? Great.

**Jay Van Bavel** (4:30)
Thanks for having me again, John.

**John R. Miles** (4:32)
Jay, you first joined me on Passion Struck for episode 266 And if you can believe it, we are now on episode 785

**Jay Van Bavel** (4:40)
Congratulations.

**John R. Miles** (4:42)
A lot in between. And during that conversation, thank you, we discussed your book, The Power of Us, and we explored how social identity shape our beliefs, behaviors, relationships, and even our own perception of reality. It was a really fun conversation for those who want to go back and check it out.
But looking at society today, a lot has changed since then. What concerns you more, polarization itself or the growing certainty people have that they're unquestionably right?