Who is a True Christian w/ David Congdon

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Dan McClellan (0:53)

Can you talk about what actually makes a true Christian versus a fake Christian like me?

David Congdon (1:00)

I think it has, I mean, political power is part of it, but I would specify it specifically in terms of money. I think it's about, I think it's about money.

Dan McClellan (1:12)

Hey, everybody, I'm Dan McClellan.

Dan Beecher (1:13)

And I'm Dan Beecher.

Dan McClellan (1:15)

And you are listening to the Data Over Dogma podcast, where we increase public access to the academic study of the Bible and religion and combrat, combrat, combat, the spread of misinformation about the same, as long as our locution is where it needs to be, which today it obviously is not. How are things, Dan?

Dan Beecher (1:36)

Man, we're off to a good start. Off to a strong, solid start to our show, which is good.

Dan McClellan (1:41)

Competent podcasters would just start over.

Dan Beecher (1:44)

Yeah, but fun podcasters will just leave it in and keep rolling. Yeah. I'm excited. We have a really interesting discussion today. We're going to be finally, finally getting to the answer to the question, who is a real Christian? Which I think, and now I can't talk, so we're all in the same boat. Why don't you introduce our guest before we just run ourselves into a ditch?

Dan McClellan (2:13)

Please help us, David. Today we're going to be talking with my friend David Congdon, who is the author of a new book, Who is a True Christian? Good Grief, Contesting religious Identity in American Culture. Good Grief is not a part of the subtitle here. And David is the senior Editor at the University Press of Kansas and also adjuncts at McCormick Theological Seminary and Dubuque Theological Seminary. David, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us.

David Congdon (2:41)

Thank you for having me.

Dan Beecher (2:42)

Yeah, if we can actually get any words out, this is going to be a fun conversation, David. The book, Who is a True Christian, it feels like now is the time for this book. I'm really glad that it's come out because I think that, especially here in the United States, this is what's being screamed on every... If you look at any Dan McClellan comment section or whatever, you're going to find people safeguarding with all their might, mind and strength, their idea of who counts in Christianity and who doesn't count in Christianity.

But I think that you will say that this is not a new phenomenon.

David Congdon (3:33)

I mean, the timing is really helpful for me. I think as Dan will, well, the other Dan will attest, books take a long time to digestate and deform. You don't really have much control over when a book comes out. And so I began this book several years ago, thought it would have been out a couple of years earlier than this year, but rather happy that it happened to come out in an election year.

Did not anticipate having a mainline Lutheran as a VP candidate who aroused a lot of true Christian claims. These things are all entirely out of my control, but the timing has been quite helpful.

Dan McClellan (4:15)

Yeah, and I really like the quote you start off with. You're talking about Trump and the election from 2020 You begin with Pastor John MacArthur's statement, to Donald Trump, any real true believer is going to be on your side in this election. So we're not dancing around the issue at all, but aiming directly at the fact that who is and isn't a real Christian is not just kind of an academic exercise or something for apologists to bicker about on social media. This is something that is influencing the election of the most powerful figure in geopolitics today.