Who are the REAL Christians?

SPEAKER_1 (0:01)

Have you ever gazed in wonder at the Great Pyramid? Have you marveled at the golden face of Tutankhamun? Or admired the delicate features of Queen Nefertiti? If you have, you'll probably like the History of Egypt podcast. Every week, we explore tales of this ancient culture. The History of Egypt is available wherever you get your podcasting fix. Come, let me introduce you to the world of Ancient Egypt.

History isn't black and white, yet too often it's presented as such. Grey History, the French Revolution is a long form history podcast dedicated to exploring the ambiguities and nuances of the past. From a revolution of hope and liberty to the infamous reign of terror, you can't understand the modern world without understanding the French Revolution. So search for the French Revolution today.

Dan McClellan (1:05)

Angels can't rebel, they don't have their own agency. They can't do that. They're not sexually compatible. They're not made of flesh and bone. Never mind. So to speak. Yes. Hey everybody, I'm Dan McClellan.

Dan Beecher (1:26)

And I'm Dan Beecher.

Dan McClellan (1:27)

And you're listening to the Data Over Dogma podcast, where we increase public access to the academic study of the Bible and religion. We combat the spread of misinformation about the same. How are things today, Dan?

Dan Beecher (1:40)

So it's a steamy hot day here in Salt Lake City, and life is good. I'm excited.

We're diving into some fun issues. I think we're going to get some juice out of it. We'll squeeze some juice out of these controversial issues.

Dan McClellan (1:57)

Yeah, it's going to be a juicy day. I went for a walk earlier today, and my shoes were pretty juicy by the time I was done.

I've got really comfortable shoes that I like to walk around in, but if my feet sweat, I'm just slipping and sliding all over the place in those shoes, and I hate it. But that's neither here nor there. I do need better socks. Touche.

Dan Beecher (2:18)

Yeah, indeed. All right. Well, what we're going to be doing, we have two segments today as per the uge. The first segment is a taking issue. And the issue, what we're going to be taking issue with is, what counts as a Christian? What are the markers of a Christian?

Dan McClellan (2:38)

Yes. And who gets to decide to?

Dan Beecher (2:41)

Spoiler alert. It's me. I get to figure it out. So you'll have to come to me to know for sure if you're actually a Christian. And then the second half of our show will be a What's That. And the What's That that we're talking about are the Sons of God?

Dan McClellan (2:59)

B'nei Elohim. Yes, the Sons of God.

Dan Beecher (3:01)

The Sons. That's a plural thing. We're not talking about just the Son of God. So that will be interesting. That will be fun to dive into. But first, let's take issue.

And this week, we're taking issue with Christians. We're taking issue with you, Christians.

Dan McClellan (3:22)

Yeah, we're gonna go off the beaten path this week.

And we're gonna blaze a new trail through the tangled undergrowth of contemporary Christian identity politics. We had a wonderful discussion with my friend David Congdon a while ago on Who is a Christian, his book that he published. I thought that was a fascinating discussion. But this was catalyzed by a recent discussion that was had on the Joe Rogan podcast when Texas state representative...

Dan Beecher (3:58)

And Opie Taylor lookalike.

Dan McClellan (4:02)

Representative Tallarico, I believe James is the first name, right? James Tallarico. James Tallarico, who if I understand, is hiding out somewhere right now. I don't know if he's...

Dan Beecher (4:13)

Right.

Dan McClellan (4:14)

If the sheriff and his posse have caught up with him yet.

Dan Beecher (4:18)

Did someone check Mayberry? Because he's probably there. Down by the fishing hole is where I would go first.

Dan McClellan (4:23)

He's got a cane pole on him. I know it. And by the way, oh, man, that brings back memories. Cane pole, poppers. Oh, I don't even want to get into it. I cannot get sidetracked.

Dan Beecher (4:36)

I don't know all of your drugs, talk, weirdo.

Dan McClellan (4:41)

No, this is growing up on a farm. I'm in West Virginia.

But that is also neither here nor there. Nothing is here or there for this discussion. But, and he made an interesting point when he was talking to Brother Rogan. He was talking about, Rogan asked him about a biblical case for legalized abortion. But there was one part where James made the case that he didn't, he said, I get suspicious when people say certain issues need to be at the center of our identity as Christians.