What Microsoft’s Culture Shift Can Teach You in 2026 | Kathleen Hogan

Michael Gervais (0:00)

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Kathleen Hogan (1:24)

When I went through cancer and my son was four, I had to shave my hair because I was going through chemo, and I was sitting there playfully saying to James, do you like mommy with or without hair? And this is probably one of the most profound moments in my life. James looked me straight in the eye, didn't hesitate and said, mommy, I love you just the way you are. And in that moment, it just healed me because my core worth is being his mom, being seen by him. It's been a while and it's shaped who I am.

Michael Gervais (1:56)

What if the future of work is not about technology, but about unlocking more humanity in each other?

Kathleen Hogan (2:02)

I remember having one meeting with a boss at the time. The essence was I didn't like how we were treating people in a meeting. And I remember being told, you're too emotional, it's just business. I remember going home and thinking, it may be business, but it's not how I want to do business.

Michael Gervais (2:20)

Welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery Podcast, where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers. I'm your host, Dr. Michael Gervais. By trade and training, a high-performance psychologist. Now, the idea behind these conversations is simple. It's to sit with the extraordinaries and to learn, to really learn how they work from the inside out. Today's episode is with Kathleen Hogan, Chief Strategy and Transformation Officer at Microsoft, and one of the key architects behind the company's cultural transformation.

Kathleen Hogan (2:50)

We together decided to ground our culture in a growth mindset and really create a culture where the how mattered as much as the what.

Michael Gervais (2:59)

Kathleen traces the early days of working with Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella. If you haven't listened to the Finding Mastery episode with Satya and I, it's episode 120 and I highly recommend it. He's amazing.

Kathleen Hogan (3:11)

I was super excited to be on that journey with him. Very early in the beginning, we brought you in which was one of the most consequential meetings of my life, honestly.

Michael Gervais (3:20)

In this conversation, Kathleen and I talked about the deep psychological footing required to lead through disruption, and what she believes the future of human work requires from each of us.

Kathleen Hogan (3:31)

I think with AI, we've got lightning in a bottle, where our ability to empower others is going to be accelerated.

Michael Gervais (3:39)

I think there's something for anyone navigating change in this conversation, whether it's personally or organizationally. So with that, let's jump right into this week's conversation with my friend Kathleen Hogan.

Kathleen, this feels like it was a 10 years in the making conversation. And before we get into like our journey together and all of that, I want to start in a way that I can better understand who you are and what led you to this incredible body work that you've had over your professional career. So.

Kathleen Hogan (4:18)

Deep breath.

Michael Gervais (4:19)

Yeah, here it is.

Kathleen Hogan (4:21)

No, you and I were joking about watching some of the other podcasts, which by the way, I've just loved. The breadth of people like Howie Mandel, of course, I've watched him on America's Got Talent, Derek Hoff, Dancing with the Stars, Deb Cupp, my own colleague here at Microsoft who's amazing, Ben, the CEO of Alaska who I get to work with. It was so much fun to hear their stories and hear the why behind what they do. But it definitely had me thinking, oh my gosh, I'm going to have to really go back in time and think about what shaped me.