What Hackers Know About Your Software Supply Chain (That You Don’t) w/ Chainguard's Kim Lewandowski

**Kim Lewandowski** (0:00)
A lot of it is because of the big SolarWinds attack that happened, the reality is the world is just getting pwned right now on these software supply chain attacks, like it's kind of terrifying.

**SPEAKER_2** (0:09)
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**Dan Lines** (0:29)
Hey, everyone. Welcome to Dev Interrupted. I'm your host, Dan Lines, and today I'm joined by Kim Lewandowski, founder and head of product at Chainguard.
Kim, thanks so much for joining us, and congrats on the just-announced $5 million in seed roundfunding.

**Kim Lewandowski** (0:47)
Yeah, we incorporated and then raised around pretty quickly after, so it's exciting for us. Thanks for having me.

**Dan Lines** (0:54)
That's so cool. We're definitely going to dive into that and how that came to be.
But before we get there, I'd like to start by giving our audience the opportunity to get to know you a little bit better. I heard that you once had a scholarship to study ceramic engineering. Is that true?

**Kim Lewandowski** (1:12)
Yes, it's true. I grew up in western upstate New York near Corning Incorporated, so I was near Corning, sorry, grew up near Corning, the city, but Corning Incorporated was based there, which some listeners may have heard about and they're famous for things like Gorilla Glass, like making glass for spacecrafts, cookware and fiber optics. And I did a internship there in high school, a couple of them, and I think that's where I got interested in like ceramic engineering. But then I ended up dropping out and not going through with the program last minute. I think I thought it was like a little bit too specific. And so, yeah, so that was the end of that.

**Dan Lines** (1:51)
That's actually really cool. I know all about that in a way because I grew up in Rochester, New York, which is in upstate New York. And the Corning, I remember either getting or receiving gifts from the Corning Glass Company. So very cool.
Small world there.

**Kim Lewandowski** (2:09)
Yeah, the museum is awesome. If you're ever in the area, get a chance to go check it out.

**Dan Lines** (2:15)
Now you ultimately ended up studying comp sci, right? You got a comp sci degree.

**Kim Lewandowski** (2:22)
Yeah, I ended up with a master's in computer science. I went to RIT for a brief stint in New York and then I couldn't take the weather anymore and finished up at Florida State, so.

**Dan Lines** (2:32)
Yeah, you went the exact, it was too snowy. So you said, I'm gonna go all the way down to Florida and make sure it's sunny.
Most of the time. What got you into computer science?

**Kim Lewandowski** (2:44)
Yeah, great question. You know, I was always pretty good at math in high school and I enjoyed it. And I was always looking for the advanced math classes and everything. I remember helping my older brother out on math. It was pretty fun.
And then I took my first C++ programming class. That was my first introduction to programming. And it kind of stuck with me from then on.
Like I preferred that the solutions are either kind of right or wrong. So if you're compiling a program, you know, he either compiles and works or he missed his space. So I think I enjoyed that part of it more with less ambiguity. And my dad was always like, we had the computers early on and I can't even tell you how many hours I've logged on like Oregon Trail and some city and things. So, yeah, I think the combination of kind of those two things just got me intrigued by the field. And yeah, last thing I know, I ended up with a master's in CS.

**Dan Lines** (3:40)
What I love about developing when I was a developer, it's like you get that little dopamine hit every time. Okay, yeah, my code's compiling. I finished a function. It's doing something all throughout the day. So you get like a quick feedback loop on your work.
And in addition to all of this, I also understand you spent two years working at a nuclear research lab in California. How did you end up doing that?

**Kim Lewandowski** (4:10)
Yeah, so that's a fun story.
So my parents didn't really help out for much for college, paying for the bills and everything. So I was always on the lookout for scholarships and ways to get money. And I heard about this government scholarship and I think it's still around today. It's like the scholarship for service. So I applied and luckily I received it. They covered grad school for me and a stipend. So it was like the first time I didn't have to work as a college student, which was mind blowing. I was always holding like almost a full-time job down.