Veteran White House reporter April Ryan’s ‘Blacklash’

Tonya Mosley (0:00)

This is Fresh Air. I'm Tonya Mosley.

For nearly three decades, my guest today, journalist April Ryan, has reported from the White House briefing room, covering five presidents, from Bill Clinton to Donald Trump. She spent most of those years at American Urban Radio Networks, a Black-owned national network.

Today, the Trump administration is in court with CNN, MSNOW and Politico, after barring their reporters from the White House. A federal judge has temporarily ordered access restored. Ryan saw an earlier version of this. During Trump's first term, her exchanges with the president and his press secretaries turned personal, and several went viral. In 2017, she asked Sean Spicer, Trump's first press secretary, whether the Russia investigations were becoming a problem for the administration. Spicer then turned the question on her.

April Ryan (0:54)

How does this administration try to revamp its image? Two and a half months in, you've got the shade story today. You've got other things going on. You've got Russia.

You've got wiretapping. You've got the shade story.

SPEAKER_4 (1:06)

No, we don't have that.

Sean Spicer (1:07)

You have investigations on Capitol Hill.

SPEAKER_6 (1:09)

No, no, I get it.

Sean Spicer (1:10)

But you keep it.

SPEAKER_6 (1:11)

I've said it from the day that I got here until whatever, that there is no connection.

Sean Spicer (1:16)

You've got Russia.

Tonya Mosley (1:18)

If the president puts Russian salad dressing on his salad tonight, somehow that's a Russian connection.

Sean Spicer (1:23)

But every single person, no, well, no, that's, I appreciate your agenda here. But the reality is, no, no, no, hold on. No, at some point, report the facts. The facts are that every single person who has been briefed on this subject has come away with the same conclusion.

Donald Trump (1:38)

Republican, Democrat.

Sean Spicer (1:39)

So I'm sorry that that disgusts you.

SPEAKER_6 (1:42)

You're shaking your head.

Tonya Mosley (1:44)

That was my guest, April Ryan, with Sean Spicer in 2017

Her new book is Notes on a Blacklash. When a Black woman goes viral. And it's about what happened when the reporter asking the questions became part of the story. And April Ryan, welcome to Fresh Air.

April Ryan (2:02)

Tonya, thank you so much for having me. And you know, you triggered me a little bit with that Sean Spicer flashback.

Tonya Mosley (2:10)

You know, I was thinking about that, especially with the way you write about not only the impact on your work, but the impact personally. And I was just wondering, do you remember the first time you realized that the responses you were getting in the White House press room weren't just about your question anymore?

April Ryan (2:31)

You know, the responses were to send a message to my fellow journalists in the room who worked for other companies. This could be you if you asked the wrong question.

At the end of the day, I asked Sean Spicer, look, you know, what are you going to do to revamp your image? That wasn't a question where he could have gone off from me. He could have just said, hey, you know, what we're trying to do is continue to talk to the American people. But he wanted to make news. He wanted to have a moment. He did. And it was shocking to me because I said, this is not trite. This is a serious question. And then his response, I just couldn't believe it. And I shook my head side to side. I'm a grown woman just as he is a grown man.

He chastised me worse than he would a child in front of the world.

Tonya Mosley (3:25)

I want to delve in with you on something you call the chilling effect because we have seen over the last few weeks, the White House moved to bar reporters from outlets, CNN and MSNOW and Politico. And it's kind of different than what you are describing in this book, but it made me think of the broader point you are making.

April Ryan (3:44)

Exactly.

Tonya Mosley (3:45)

Because you write that it isn't always censorship that we kind of think about imposed by law.

Sometimes it's self-censorship out of exhaustion, out of being called out of your name consistently in the White House press corps room. Have you ever felt that happening to you that because of what you have endured that you have found yourself self-censoring?

April Ryan (4:08)

Yes, self-censoring being more strategic. Self-censoring meaning watching my words. They may still be the same, but watching how I string words together that could invoke the eyer of someone who still is so sycophantic in their support of this president who could harm me. We are in that era.