US envoys to meet with Zelenskyy in Dublin - what we know

SPEAKER_1 (0:00)

The Hard Shoulder, with Ciara Kelly and Shane Colman. On Newstalk, with Ciara.

Ciara Kelly (0:08)

US envoys Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff will be travelling to Dublin this week to meet with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. And for more on this, we are joined by Washington Bureau Chief for The Guardian, David Smith. Good evening to you, David.

David Smith (0:20)

Good evening.

Ciara Kelly (0:23)

The envoys, the US envoys, this visit to Dublin where they will meet with Zelenskyy, obviously off the back of the recent talks, the tripartite talks. Is this significant? Is this window dressing?

David Smith (0:37)

Yeah, that's a great question. And recent experience suggests that it might ultimately be more window dressing because of course Kushner and Witkoff have been involved in this process for many months now. And yet the war continues and some of the fiercest attacks in fact, and of course Russia seemingly determined to make it a miserable winter in Ukraine. All of that said, according to the Politico news site who interviewed Jared Kushner, the priority now is to get Vladimir Putin to give his blessing to allow European representatives to join future peace talks.

So we'll see if Kushner can deliver that from his meeting with Putin in Russia. He's saying it's important to have Europeans at the table. And then obviously, I think coming to Dublin, Zelensky's involvement in European meetings there would be the perfect place. And perhaps that can be a step forward along with the political exchanges.

Ciara Kelly (1:46)

The Ukrainian delegation in Abu Dhabi had EU representatives there advising them and kind of back room consulting and those types of things, but obviously not involved. But clearly, you would have to believe Russia's bona fides in wanting to bring this war to an end in order to think that they might be open to such things. However, they are in a position currently where their economy, their wartime economy is grinding down very slowly, isn't it?

David Smith (2:12)

Yeah, I mean, I think this war has been terrible for the Russian economy. So much incredible casualty figures, so many men involved in that, and then the various international sanctions. And of course, more recently, the Ukrainians have been so innovative with the drones that they've been able to target Russian energy infrastructure and even shopping depots and supplies.

It's becoming increasingly painful for the Russian economy, but probably not enough to stop Putin pursuing it.

Ciara Kelly (2:56)

Yeah.

I suppose finally, before we move on to other things as well, David, the fact that there are follow-up talks and that the US envoys are taking the trouble, as it were, to come to Ireland. Well, mind you, everyone seems to be coming to Ireland this week, to be perfectly honest. But anyway, the fact that they are doing that, does that signify a greater focus or perhaps a shift in policy?

David Smith (3:23)

It's a positive certainly that they're not giving up and they're sustained on this and they will take the good news where they can, such as Russia and Ukraine agreeing to a big exchange of prisoners of war. But of course, it remains Donald Trump's somewhat idiosyncratic approach to foreign policy. This is not really the State Department or Marco Ribio. It's these personal envoys of his because he does tend to do these things via personal relations. And that's not always been to Zelenskyy's advantage, of course.

Ciara Kelly (3:55)

No, not remotely. And of course, you're quite right. There is a kind of a mercurial nature to the flip flopping that goes on about what was being said about Ukraine. And before I let you go, the BBC's bid to throw out Donald Trump's defamation case against them was dismissed in Florida?

David Smith (4:12)

Yes, that's right. Something of a setback. This was a federal judge in the southern district of Florida saying that the case can proceed against the BBC over that defamation in the Panorama documentary. The decision read, whether President Trump can prove these claims and establish he sustained damages of summary judgment or trial is left for another day.

And there was one or two sort of minor victories for the BBC within the judgment. And they've said they're disappointed, but they're ready to fight on.

Ciara Kelly (4:49)

The judge, of course, has not said that anything untoward has happened by the BBC, but just said that the case can proceed. So we will watch that with beta breath. Look, thank you very much for joining us. That is Washington Bureau Chief for The Guardian, David Smith.

SPEAKER_1 (5:03)

The Hard Shoulder with Ciara Kelly and Shane Coleman with Kia. Weekdays at four on Newstalk. Conversation That Counts.