Understanding the Psychology of Perfectionism - Dr Paul Hewitt - #1025

**Chris Williamson** (0:00)
Give me a better than most people probably already have working definition of perfectionism.

**Paul Hewitt** (0:08)
Well, first off, a perfectionism is kind of a deeply ingrained personality style that people use to kind of navigate their path through life. So we talk about it as a way of being in the world.
And it's kind of the sense that at the core, I'm not enough, that there's something that is flawed, defective. I'm just not enough either to have worth or to be acceptable to other people, to fit, to belong, to have a place in the world. And so, it's a way of trying to navigate that because when we have that sense of being flawed and defective or I don't fit, we don't just typically say, okay, that's the way it is. We try to do something about it. We try to rectify it. One of the ways that a person can do that, and they learn this often very early in life, is that if I am perfect, or if I can appear to others as perfect, then I will be acceptable to them. I will be loved, I will be cared for, I will belong, I will matter to other people, and by virtue of that, I will have worth. It will repair this sense of being flawed and defective at the core. So, what it is, is this sort of way of navigating the world, of trying to conceal imperfections, trying, yes, to be perfect in tasks and activities and that, but really it's more of a drive not to be imperfect. So, it's kind of what, that's kind of the way we understand.

**Chris Williamson** (2:07)
So, this typical sort of upbringing of somebody that grows up to be a perfectionist, is love contingent on performance?

**Paul Hewitt** (2:18)
And that can be an element of it. I think that what we talk about in terms of the development would be a sense of, this comes from the attachment literature that people have probably heard the term before, but also some writing, some psychoanalytic writing, on the development of the self by Heinz Kohut. And it's the notion that very early on in our lives, we develop a sense of who we are, and a sense of the way other people work in our lives. And so, very often, the very early kind of lives of individuals who develop this flawed sense of self, or this not fitting, is there's what we call an asynchrony or a non-attunement. It's at these basic, very human needs to have worth and to be acceptable, or to fit and belong, are not met early in the person's life. So they have a sense that, I'm just not enough, there's something wrong with me. And they try to navigate that.
As I said, often, very, very early in life. So they do have a sense of caregivers or family members or people that are supposed to be caring for them as they're incapable of giving me what I need. They're don't care, they're abusive or we just miss. We just don't connect. So it's not to say that the parents are to blame or bad. It's just that somehow what the child needs is just not attainable in that interaction. That's kind of the essence of attachment.

**Chris Williamson** (4:16)
And what's the lesson from the burgeoning proto-perfectionist? What is the lesson that that child takes away? That I am not getting what I need, therefore I need to be more than I am in order to get what I need. If I can be more impressive, less imperfect, then the world might support me and love me in the way that I want?

**Paul Hewitt** (4:38)
Yes, but it's not that sophisticated at that very early age. It's a sense of, I'm just not enough. There's something wrong with me. And try in some sort of fashion to try to deal with that. And in a way, it's a very elegant solution to the pain of that, because a child will learn this sort of sense. Well, if I am perfect, or if I can appear to others as if I am perfect, or conceal my imperfections, then all of these wonderful things are going to happen. I will be acceptable to others. I'll feel good about myself. I'll have worth, and I will fit and belong in the world. Now, it's a very childlike solution to the problem, but it's very elegant at that sort of stage of development.
And it grabs on with these people. Sorry, you were going to say something.

**Chris Williamson** (5:39)
It makes sense if you say that one of the key drivers in a child that is continued into adulthood of a perfectionist is, I am not enough, then the value judgment is, if I can be more, then I may be enough. And more is more perfect, better in terms of my performance, higher in terms of my achievement, less in terms of my error and my mistake-making.