Unabridged Interview: Kristin Kobes Du Mez

Lee C. Camp (0:00)

You can get all episodes of No Small Endeavor a week early and ad free on Patreon. Check out all of our membership offerings, including bonus content, community discussions, and pre-sale access, by going now to visit patreon.com/nosmallendeavor.

Now, on to the show.

Hello, friends. Lee C. Camp. You're listening to No Small Endeavor. This is our unabridged interview with Kristin Kobes Du Mez.

First met Kristin doing the interview with her maybe back in 2021 on her New York Times best seller, Jesus and John Wayne. That was a wide ranging and masterful engagement, a cultural history on the rise of Christian nationalism in American evangelicalism. It was a book that was either greatly loved and celebrated or hated, because obviously raising a very pointed thesis, very generative in a lot of rich conversation. In this newest book, Live, Laugh, Love, The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made, she moves from the toxic masculinity of Jesus and John Wayne, to perhaps a toxic femininity, though I don't think she uses that phrase, or at least a toxic positivity. It's a really fascinating book and a fascinating conversation. I mean, some of the things that stand out to me, especially we spent some time talking about Hannah Whittle Smith, who was a very prominent writer in the 19th century. 1875, she published this book, The Christian's Secret of a Happy Life. Her children tragically died, her husband cheated on her, and she didn't have any use for men, or especially her own husband. And near the end of her life, she wrote, I choose to be content. And she says that because she couldn't say that she was. And so she redefined perhaps what happiness could possibly mean because she wasn't happy.

Another kind of thing that you'll see in this conversation with Kristin is the contention that we get formed more by what we buy and consume, maybe, than by what we're taught. You know, you've got a little bit of sermon on Sunday, a little bit of Bible study, but then you have a whole week of Christian radio or Christian novels or the Christian consumerist stuff that you put on your walls in your house. And she asked the question, what kind of cultural values and cultural formation is occurring through these sorts of practices? Or another thing that really stands out in the conversation is the philosophy that goes back to 19th century holiness movement, then in conjunction with positive thinking in the 20th century, this notion that God blesses the obedient. And if you think positively and you work hard and you do the so-called right things, then you're going to win, you're going to be successful. It raises the question, right, if God blesses the obedience, then the winners must deserve it. And so if you're not a so-called winner, if you're not successful, if you're afflicted with lots of difficulties, well, you must deserve that as well. And so hang around to the very last bit of our conversation where Kristin says, her conception of Christian faith is that we're not called to win, we're called to be faithful, which rearranges how we might think about so much of this. Great conversation. Here's Kristin Kobes Du Mez.

SPEAKER_2 (3:20)

College football is back. So Hilton called on me, the superstition concierge, to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky.

Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching band wake up call at 555 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay.

SPEAKER_4 (3:50)

The Lemonati has spent decades keeping lemon on top and lime in the shadows. Their lemon agenda has infiltrated everything, even our music. That hit song named after the color of lemons? Not a coincidence. Big Lemon has been pulling strings in the industry for years.

Think about it.

But now 7UP is fighting back with their new lime lemon soda. Now lime comes first. 7UP. Flip the Sip.

SPEAKER_3 (4:21)

This week, it pays extra to be a My Lo's Rewards Member. Through October 14th, members get $10 My Lo's Money when you spend $200 or more on an eligible purchase during My Lo's Money Days. Also using your My Lo's Rewards Credit Card? Even better, that's an additional $20 My Lo's Money. Use it to save on your next Lo's Haul. Exclusions, restrictions and more terms apply. See los.com/mylo'smoneydays for details. My Lo's Money expires 30 days after issuance. Subject to change, credit offer subject to credit approval.