Travis Kalanick Is Back | Building the Future of Industrial AI

**Travis Kalanick** (0:00)
We know what Uber's 2017 was like.

**Ben Horowitz** (0:03)
Travis Kalanick has stepped down from his role as chief executive.

**Travis Kalanick** (0:07)
That wouldn't have gone that way if Ben or Mark was on the board.

**Erik Torenberg** (0:12)
You're in this hell, you're dealing with the lawsuits.

**Ben Horowitz** (0:14)
Are you worried about the lawsuit?

**Erik Torenberg** (0:16)
And you say, hey, let's build again.

**Travis Kalanick** (0:18)
It's not as much about where you start, it's about why you start.

**Ben Horowitz** (0:22)
He's one of the very rare guys who made as much money as he did and wanted to keep.

**Travis Kalanick** (0:28)
Also remember, I did it stealth.

**Ben Horowitz** (0:30)
I know some of the techniques I used, very aggressive, but that name, you can't use that name.

**Travis Kalanick** (0:35)
And I remember David Drummond from Google was on our board and he's like, you know, Travis, that's not a thing, dude.
You've got to change it. The meaningful thing about Adam's food is, can you make the preparation and delivery of a quality meal so efficient that it approaches the cost of going to the grocery store? If it does, you do to the kitchen what Uber did to the car.

**Ben Horowitz** (0:59)
A lot of us had that idea. To build a company, a great company, it's always a great entrepreneur.

**Erik Torenberg** (1:06)
Today, I'm joined by Travis Kalanick and Ben Horowitz for a conversation years in the making. We look back at the investment that almost happened, the lessons Travis took from building Uber and why he believes the next great technology revolution won't be in software, but in the physical world. We discuss the origins of Adams, why Travis spent years building in stealth, the rise of industrial AI, robotics, autonomy, and what it takes to build companies that transform entire industries.
Travis, this is the I'm Back podcast. This is the Return of the King episode.

**Ben Horowitz** (1:43)
Return of the Mac.

**Travis Kalanick** (1:44)
That's what I'm all about. We can return. I don't know what the right thing is, but we got to come up with a walk on song for sure.

**Ben Horowitz** (1:51)
Return of the Mac.

**Erik Torenberg** (1:52)
And it's not just the return of Travis, but it's also return of this partnership or what could have been this relationship with Travis and Ben. So I want to read a quote, Travis, from your launch post. I've known Mark and Ben for a long time, and we got oh so close to partnering up at Uber in 2011 I, Travis, blame Mark. Ben blamed himself, but let's just say it was all on us, it was on all of us. And in 2017, Uber suffered the consequences of not having Mark on the board. If you know, you know.
Travis, tell the story.

**Travis Kalanick** (2:19)
Okay, so this will be interesting because I think Ben and I have maybe discussed this once or twice.

**Ben Horowitz** (2:24)
Yeah, it's very painful.

**Travis Kalanick** (2:26)
And I think that there could be...

**Ben Horowitz** (2:27)
Mostly from me.

**Travis Kalanick** (2:28)
I'm not sure if there's a difference of opinion on what happened, but I'll tell you what I thought happened. So I'm in fundraising mode. This is our Series B. This is 2011 Uber started 2010, June 2010 I'm raising our Series B. Earlier that year, I did Series A with VCL remain nameless. And I'm hardcore. I went through such tough times as an entrepreneur pre-Uber, that once I'm in Uber and things are working, I'm still acting like I'm not going to eat tomorrow.
So I would do everything right up to the line, be perfect. And so I have this whole fundraising process that I would do just to perfection. And that means I'd run an auction.
So met with a16z guys, met with lots of folks. And it was what I would call winner takes all auction, meaning there's one major lead.
They're going to set the price and then everybody else will fall in. So I'd go to one guy, I'd tell him what the story was. And they're like, oh, we're interested. He's leaning forward. They're like, so how much are you raising? What's the price? And I would do this thing where I would say, this is going to be one of the hottest deals in Silicon Valley this year. We don't know where the price is going to be, where it's going to go to, but it's at least blank. And I call this the uncapped anchor, meaning I'm never in a place where I'm negotiating with somebody, where I'm here and they're here and we meet in the middle. I'm always saying, it's at least this and it can go up. But I start low so that everybody's pumped leaning forward. It's like, okay, you could see body language, you can read, it's good. The next guy literally comes to your office an hour later. Same thing happens. He's fired up. I'm showing all the analytics. It's great.