Toto Wolff: The Brutal Truth Behind My Success, Self-Doubt & Leadership

Toto Wolff (0:02)

I always stared into an abyss. Tomorrow could be the end of everything. I'm a glass half empty person, and I think that keeps you on your toes. My father got very ill with a brain cancer when I was very young, six or seven years old, and got operated many, many times until he died when I was 15

Even if you can't see light at the end of the tunnel, because things are so bad, the truth is, it always ends.

Damian Hughes (0:31)

That is the very distinctive voice of Mercedes Formula 1 team principal and CEO Toto Wolff. Now, this was an unforgettable pleasure for me, this podcast episode. One of the most honest conversations we've ever recorded, as Toto traced his own decisiveness back to what he calls an F'ed up upbringing. His father got really ill with brain cancer when Toto was just a few years old. He was operated on again and again, and sadly died by the time Toto was 15

He reckons he had to become an adult somewhere between the ages of 10 and 12, looking after his sister while his mother tried to hold the whole thing together on her own. But Toto doesn't reach for sympathy. He reaches for a theory about why he might not be sitting in that chair at Mercedes at all without that start in life. We also get into something he's talked about far less, periods of depression from the age of 18 onwards. A night at the Amber Lounge in Monaco at 29, standing on the outside looking in at a room full of people who apparently had it all. And because this is Toto, we don't stay reflective for too long. The exact language he uses with his mechanics when something goes wrong and a candid reassessment of his own part in Mercedes' most bruising years are all things we dive into. But one quick thing before we start, this is a special conversation, but it does include a frank discussion of depression and of getting professional help. So please listen with care. This is raw. It's funny in places. It's probably the most complex picture I've ever heard of what goes on inside the mind of Toto Wolff. A man famous for the calm exterior on the pit wall, but a man that you're about to get to know like never before. As we welcome Toto to High Performance.

Well, Toto, welcome back to High Performance.

Toto Wolff (2:18)

Thank you for having me again.

Damian Hughes (2:19)

So I think one of the interesting things about your role is that people will always look to you to have the answer, right? How do you make big decisions like Kimi Antonelli replacing Lewis Hamilton? What's the process that you go through so you are confident in your decision making process?

Toto Wolff (2:35)

Because of my more difficult upbringing, I don't struggle to take decisions. It's actually something that comes quite natural to me.

There's an instinctive response, an internal response that I have with myself, that was literally the opportunity for Kimi. And on the other side, there was another F2 season to go and lots of testing for Kimi, so you have to in a way stand back and say, hold on a minute, that's your instinctive reaction, so that's probably going to happen, but there could be breaking points where you should be rationally and logically acting, and then obviously picking the brains of all the good people that I work with here in Mercedes and also talking to all. So it's important to pick up the macros at Mercedes and Stuttgart and picking their brains is important before coming to a final conclusion. And that decision that was made was with Ola and was also in the room with Gwen, who runs our junior program, James Ellison, Bradley Lord, and just to confirm my first initial instinct.

Damian Hughes (3:38)

Are you happy to talk about those things in the past?

Toto Wolff (3:42)

Yeah, I'm happy to talk about it because I think when you are perceived as someone that is successful in that sense, it's important to give hope to people that it doesn't always need to be easy. Actually, adversity, as tough as it is in these moments, especially for a child, can make you a strong individual.

Damian Hughes (4:01)

So in the book, the phrase that you use is a fucked up upbringing. Tell us about that.

Toto Wolff (4:08)

Well, it's a fucked up upbringing, but to nobody else's fault. It was just a circumstance.

My father got very ill with a brain cancer when I was very young, six or seven years old, and got operated many, many times until he died when I was 15 So my father wasn't really present, couldn't be present. And as a young boy, you fall in love with your father. He's your hero. And then you need to have those moments where you hate your father, where you're actually able to revolt in a way. And I had none of that, only anger. And at the same time, my mother was a doctor and she tried to survive herself. And that's why my sister and I were pretty much on our own.