Totally Extra: The very talented Mr Rijkaard

SPEAKER_1 (0:02)

The Athletic FC.

James Richardson (0:09)

Totally Extra, today, a Frank chat about a legend of the game. Frank Rijkaard, engine of maybe the greatest club side ever, perhaps two of them. Man who actually won something with Netherlands, winner of a World Manager of the Year Award too, only to then walk away from football. Top rated, celebrated, except for when he expectorated Frank Rijkaard in today's Totally Extra.

Thursday 17th September and on today's Totally Extra, what a stellar line up. Duncan Alexander.

Duncan Alexander (0:50)

Hello James.

James Richardson (0:51)

Hi Duncan and his athletic cohort, Michael Cox.

Michael Cox (0:55)

Hi James.

James Richardson (0:56)

Nice to see you Michael. I haven't seen you since that World Cup thing.

Michael Cox (1:00)

Yeah, I remember it well.

James Richardson (1:03)

And joining us from Paris, football writer extraordinaire, Simon Kuper. Simon, thank you for being with us.

Simon Kuper (1:11)

It's a pleasure. Nice to see you.

James Richardson (1:13)

Well, see you too. And what a great time for you to be joining the Totally Football Show to discuss Frank Rijkaard, Simon, of course, celebrated writer of so many great books, many of which Concern or Touch on Dutch Football, Football Against the Enemy, Socconomics Leto, The Football Men, lots of others. World Cup Fever is your latest work, Simon, how's that going?

Simon Kuper (1:37)

It was quite an eventful World Cup, as you'll recall. So I think we had the foresight to bring it out just before the Trump World Cup.

James Richardson (1:45)

Have you added a chapter since?

Simon Kuper (1:47)

I have. It's ready to go. It will be out at some point soon.

James Richardson (1:51)

All right then. Perhaps for Christmas, I'm hoping anyway. Well, Frank Rijkaard is the subject for today's show.

A man who left his mark and then left, curiously enough. Simon, I think, may have spoken to him since his disappearance from the stage, but we'll touch on that later on. Michael, I'm going to ask you, you're picking a World 11, an all-time World 11 Is Frank Rijkaard in it?

Michael Cox (2:15)

He's probably not in an all-time World 11, but I think if you had to pick one player to fill every position in a World 11, would that not be the same thing?

No, because I think my point is that Rijkaard could play in any position.

So you could have 10 Frank Rijkaards, and I think you'd have a solid back four and a creative midfield, and you'd probably have someone to score goals up front. He probably wasn't the best player in any individual position. But yeah, as an all-rounder relative to the players he played with in that era, I mean, he was incredible. He could do everything. He could score goals. He was creative. He could dribble. He had physical power. I think you look at a lot of players from his period and think, could they adapt to today's game? Now it's so quick. Well, I think he was often the quickest player on the pitch, as well as being one of the most intelligent players on the pitch. So yeah, he was an extraordinary player. And unlike a lot of players who covered every blade of grass and all that, he had tactical discipline and intelligence and obviously carried that into his coaching career.

Simon Kuper (3:11)

Right.

James Richardson (3:11)

It's coaching career, which is something I find particularly enigmatic. We'll touch on that later on.

But Simon, how is he, you grew up in the Netherlands, how is he viewed there? Is he in the pantheon of all timers?

Simon Kuper (3:24)

I think so. I mean, the thing is, he is not an egomaniac, quite the opposite. And of course, that's a rare quality among great players, which also feeds into what Michael's saying, that he could play in every position, because he did when they asked him. So Euro ACAs, which is the one time the Netherlands wins a prize, they say, look, we need a centre back.

And he says, sure. And he plays the role brilliantly, but he could have played in any other position. So he'd never really claimed to be in the Pantheon. It doesn't particularly interest him, I think. And his disappearance from football, we could easily have done what coaches do and kept on finding a new job somewhere. Shows that he didn't really need us emotionally that much. So he's viewed with great affection. I think also he's one of the most mature and psychologically astute people that I've ever seen in football which, as you know, is not overrun with mature and psychologically astute people.

James Richardson (4:18)

Indeed. Duncan, what's your favourite Frank Rijkaard memory?