The White House’s Secret A.I. Rules + The State of Model Alignment With METR’s Chris Painter + The Final Hot Mess Express

**SPEAKER_1** (0:00)
So there's a lot of noise about AI, but time's too tight for more promises. So let's talk about results. At IBM, we work with our employees to integrate technology right into the systems they need. Now, a global workforce of 300,000 can use AI to fill their HR questions, resolving 94 percent of common questions.
Not noise, proof of how we can help companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off, deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smart to business, IBM.

**Kevin Roose** (0:30)
Casey, how the hell are you?

**Casey Newton** (0:32)
Doing great, Kevin. Another beautiful summer day here in San Francisco.

**Kevin Roose** (0:36)
It is, and I was getting my coffee the other day in San Francisco. Have you been to this new Japanese coffee place?

**Casey Newton** (0:43)
Honestly, everyone in our neighborhood is talking about it and that's not a joke.

**Kevin Roose** (0:47)
It's the talk of the town. It's a very high-end, very nice coffee place and I was there getting my coffee and I saw that they have on their menu, a cup of coffee that costs $105.
Have you seen this?

**Casey Newton** (1:01)
No, I haven't. First of all, tell people the name of this place.

**Kevin Roose** (1:03)
Okay, it's called Wild Fox. Wild Fox. Their coffee is very good, but I thought it was a typo. I was prepared to pay maybe $13 for a very nice cup of coffee.
One of their pour-overs is $105 and I was so stunned. I asked the barista, do people actually order this? He was like, yeah, about every week we get one.

**Casey Newton** (1:26)
What is in the coffee for $105?

**Kevin Roose** (1:29)
I looked that up and it's like some Brazilian award-winning blend that they sort of cryo preserve. I don't know, it sounds very fancy. I'm sure it's great, but I also believe strongly that if you pay $105 for a cup of coffee, we should confiscate your money.

**Casey Newton** (1:45)
Yeah, and possibly your land.
Listen, I actually am pretty confident that it's not worth $105. I think I could find a lot better uses for $105.

**Kevin Roose** (1:54)
Hey, there's only one way to find out.

**Casey Newton** (1:55)
Field trip? Field trip, yeah.
We're not going to do the show this week because we're headed over to WildFox to empty our bank accounts for a cup of coffee.

**Kevin Roose** (2:04)
One more great expense account caper.

**Casey Newton** (2:16)
This week, the US has a new framework for regulating AI models, but they won't let us read it. Then, after a series of AI agents going rogue, METR president Chris Painter joins us to discuss how we get them under control. And finally, we're leaving on that midnight train, known as the Hot Mess Express.

**Kevin Roose** (2:38)
Well, Casey, before we start the show today, you and I have some big news to share with our audience.

**Casey Newton** (2:43)
Let's hear it.

**Kevin Roose** (2:44)
In just a few weeks, this chapter of Hard Fork is coming to a close.

**Casey Newton** (2:48)
Kevin, what are you talking about? I need this job. I'm a wife, I have kids.

**Kevin Roose** (2:53)
None of that is true.

**Casey Newton** (2:54)
All right.

**Kevin Roose** (2:54)
But what is true is that you and I are leaving the New York Times, which has been the home of this show for the past four years and my journalistic home for about the past decade. We are starting a new independent podcast and media company together.

**Casey Newton** (3:09)
Kevin, you've already said too much. This is not the time to tell everyone about our new media company.

**Kevin Roose** (3:14)
Yeah, we will have much more to say about what we're doing next and what's happening to this feed very soon. But before we sign off, we're going to do an Ask Us Anything episode and we want you to send us your questions.

**Casey Newton** (3:26)
Yeah, and this is not a request. It is a demand to hear from you.
If you have any questions about the making of the show, anything that happened on the show over the years, or you just want our thoughts on where the world is going, this is literally the last moment that you can do that on this show. So go ahead, send us an email, a voice memo, a short video, a viral dance. Our email address is hardforkatnytimes.com for another few weeks.

**Kevin Roose** (3:54)
And again, we promise we will give you more updates about what's happening next very soon, but in the meantime, send us your questions.