‘The War of Art’ Author Steven Pressfield on Conquering Fear, Self-Doubt, and Procrastination

Michael Gervais (0:00)

What is resistance and how does it keep us from living the life we're meant to live? Welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast, where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers. I am your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. I am so excited for this week's guest, Steven Pressfield. Steven is a best-selling author and a thought leader on creativity, known for his groundbreaking works like The War of Art, and The Legend of Bagger Vance. With decades of hard-earned wisdom, he explores the themes of overcoming resistance, discovering purpose, and tapping into the creative flow that exists within us all. So with that, let's get right into this conversation with The Legend, Steven Pressfield. Steven.

Steven Pressfield (0:54)

Michael.

Michael Gervais (0:57)

It feels like a real treat to have you here. And be careful what you wish for because of my appreciation for your work and how you've shaped ideas and where you come from is so rich and so honest. Part of me is hoping that it's not burst in our conversation and the other half is like, I just can't wait to better understand how you use.

Steven Pressfield (1:25)

Thanks for having me. Like I was just saying before it started rolling, I'm very impressed with anybody that can put together an outfit and an organization and actually have more people instead of, I'm just one person in a room by myself. So my hat's off to you for all the stuff that you've done.

Michael Gervais (1:42)

Thank you.

Steven Pressfield (1:43)

Particularly this new venture here.

Michael Gervais (1:45)

Yeah, I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. You know what I thought we would do is start with, like I was saying, is that your ideas, the place that they come from is as important as the idea. So I'm like split between two. I want to understand how you express your ideas, but I wanted to maybe start with something more concrete, which is share a couple quotes that just sing, you know, at the high table of insight. And I'd love to start with that and just kind of see where you go with them.

Steven Pressfield (2:21)

Okay.

Michael Gervais (2:22)

Can we do that? Okay. Good. So the first one I have here is, and this is one that I think you are really well known for, but most of us have two lives. The life we live and the unlived life within us. Between those two stands resistance.

Most of us have two lives. The life we live and the unlived life within us.

Steven Pressfield (2:51)

So putting it, let's say, in concrete terms as, let's say somebody is working as an advertising copywriter, and that's the life they live. The unlived life within them may very well be to be a moviemaker, or be a novelist, or something like that. And the question is, as I'm sure you've dealt with many, many times, what stops them? You know, and I'm really talking about myself, you know? What stopped me from doing what I wanted to do? And it's that force that I call resistance with a capital R, that there is this negative force in the world that stands between where we are now doing whatever it is we're doing, wasting our lives usually, and whatever the higher level is, whatever our true calling is, to find that and then to be able to overcome procrastination, self-doubt, fear, perfectionism, all the other things that kind of stand between us. So that's what I mean by that.

Michael Gervais (3:54)

Before we go into resistance with a capital R and what that means and how to work with it and what you've learned by the end of one, you know, you being honest with yourself about how this works, I do want to start with almost a throwaway comment that you just said, which was, you know, a wasted life. And I'm also interested in when I read it, my take on that insight is it wasn't so much about roles, but I feel that that is one of the greatest fears I have in my life. What lies dormant will not be properly understood, expressed, brought to the light because of, let's call it resistance or let's call it fear or let's call it fill in the blanks, lots of different reasons. That that journey to bring that forward takes incredible honesty and courage and bravery and commitment and it's incredibly uncommon to do that. So the life wasted was a jumping off point for me to share that piece. And I think maybe the place to go with us is like, how do you know this? How did you get to this insight?