The ultimate guide to JTBD | Bob Moesta (co-creator of the framework)

**Bob Moesta** (0:00)
I think one of the biggest misconceptions around jobs to be done is this notion that it's pain and gain as opposed to context and outcome. When you hear somebody's story, and it seems irrational, like we'll have people go, oh my God, that's an anomaly, that doesn't happen. But what you realize is that the context makes the irrational rational. So the moment you hear a story, you go, I can't believe that. Nine times out of 10, it's because you don't have the rest of the story. And so part of it is being able to understand the rest of that context that would drive somebody to say, why would somebody cut their arm off? Well, if they're in this situation, and this, and this, and this, there's nobody who would say they want to cut their arm off, but in certain situations, you'll do it. And so that's what we're trying to do is find where will people change behavior?

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:38)
Welcome to Lenny's podcast, where I interview world-class product leaders and growth experts to learn from their hard-won experiences building and growing today's most successful products. Today, my guest is Bob Moesta. Bob is the co-creator of the Jobs to Be Done framework alongside Clay Christensen. And as you'll hear at the top of our conversation, is maybe the most anticipated guest I've had on based on the LinkedIn response. Bob has started eight companies and is currently the co-founder and CEO of The Re-Wired Group and currently spends his time helping companies of all sizes unlock hidden insights and create successful products and services. In our conversation, we get deep into all aspects of the Jobs to Be Done framework. What is it, how to apply it to your product, when it's not a good fit, how to interview customers to get accurate insights into their struggles, plus examples of how Jobs to Be Done works for zero-to-one products and a ton more. Thank you to everyone who suggested questions and topics for our conversation. Enjoy my chat with Bob Moesta after a short word from our sponsors.
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Bob, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the podcast.

**Bob Moesta** (4:08)
Thanks Lenny, excited to be here, big fan.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (4:10)
Ah, I'm a big fan of yours. I wasn't even super familiar with you before we started organizing this podcast chat. And then as you saw, I posted on LinkedIn what questions people had for you and around jobs to be done in general.